Someone post an All Masters Deck sometime ago.
I suppose it requires not only several Parthenon and
RoG (although only one Parthenon can be in play and
RoG resets the master phase to 2 m.p. actions),
but also Anson (which also only one can be in play...).
The total is 4 m.p. actions per turn, if one can achieve
to have it all well played...
I think that a "normal" deck puts in play between 2 to 5
vampires and it usually has only one master phase action.
It represents 2 to 6 actions (including m.p. actions) per turn.
The All Masters deck can put in play maybe 2 to 3 vampires
and a maximum of 4 m.p. actions.
It represents the "same" 2 to 6 actions (values "normalized")
per turn.
Is this deck *really* playable?
How should be the rest of the crypt? And how can these vampires
contribute in a deck like this? Bleed and pool gaining (only)?
What could be an example of a turn with 3 m.p. actions and an
Anson?
I imagine the sequence:
(Misdirection, Secure Haven, Metro Underground, Legal Manipulations, Aire
of Elation, untap Anson)
(Misdirection, Elysium: Arboretum, Blood Doll, bleed as above, untap)
(Misd, Pentex Subs, Ascendance, bleed, untap)
...
.- Luis....@ip.pt
Luis P. Duarte wrote:
>
> Someone post an All Masters Deck sometime ago.
> I suppose it requires not only several Parthenon and
> RoG (although only one Parthenon can be in play and
> RoG resets the master phase to 2 m.p. actions),
> but also Anson (which also only one can be in play...).
> The total is 4 m.p. actions per turn, if one can achieve
> to have it all well played...
Anson also "resets" to 2 m.p. actions, so is redundant with
Rumors of Gehenna.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
Luis P. Duarte wrote:
>
> Someone post an All Masters Deck sometime ago.
> I suppose it requires not only several Parthenon and
> RoG (although only one Parthenon can be in play and
> RoG resets the master phase to 2 m.p. actions),
> but also Anson (which also only one can be in play...).
> The total is 4 m.p. actions per turn, if one can achieve
> to have it all well played...
RoG isn't a master card, but in a mostly master card deck, it makes
Anson less necessary.
>
> Is this deck *really* playable?
Well, I think so.
>
> How should be the rest of the crypt?
Angelica, The Canonicus has a cool special... burning masters for
intercept, and Leandro's special makes him and his votes a decent pickup
too. To get pool gain from Minion Taps and Golcondas you will want a
crypt with vampires that are 8 cap or larger.
And how can these vampires
> contribute in a deck like this? Bleed and pool gaining (only)?
They don't add that much. I tried to create a "no minion" all master
card deck, but I really need Anson, and someone to block those Malk S+B
decks.
I play the pool gain angle like crazy, and let the Anarch Revolts do the
"bleed" work.
I know the anarch oust is a little unpredictable, but if your prey has 8
or larger vamps, you can turn the Golcondas on them. (assuming they
think they need their vampire). Besides being last man at the table
means at least 2 VPs.
> What could be an example of a turn with 3 m.p. actions and an
> Anson?
Let's see...
Malk Dementia on a full Lucian, Minion Tap for 10 pool, Golconda for 10
pool.
Anarch Revolt, Anarch Revolt, Anarch Revolt.
Minion Tap Angelica for 10, Giant's Blood, Minion Tap her for another 5.
Hmm, Ascendances are fun, and Barrens or Dreams of the Sphinx are good
for Card Cycling. Having Direct Interventions are also good.
There's more, I'd just have to check the deck and get back to you.
Rob Grau
rfg...@eos.ncsu.edu
LSJ wrote in message <3662D6...@wizards.com>...
>
>Anson also "resets" to 2 m.p. actions, so is redundant with
>Rumors of Gehenna.
>
Thanks...
This is _NOT_ my day... i'm just saying mistakes...
I'm not a Guru and I'll stop here.
.- Luis....@ip.pt
On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:59:03 -0000, "Luis P. Duarte"
<Luis....@ip.pt> wrote:
>Someone post an All Masters Deck sometime ago.
"Mostly Masters". =)
That was Mike Perlman, from the Atlanta crowd. =) I believe this
deck also took 2nd place in a recent Carolina tournament, right behind
the nasty evil "Volker, May I?" deck which had Atonement, Guardian
Angel, and bookoos of intercept and skill cards setting up a nice l'il
"NONE SHALL PASS" setup.
>I suppose it requires not only several Parthenon and
>RoG (although only one Parthenon can be in play and
>RoG resets the master phase to 2 m.p. actions),
>but also Anson (which also only one can be in play...).
>The total is 4 m.p. actions per turn, if one can achieve
>to have it all well played...
Nope, just 3. That's plenty though, we've found - he has way too many
toys in the deck and you NEVER know what the hell he's got coming up
next. When your entire deck is opportunity based, all those pricky
l'il cards like Brujah Frenzy are lots more fun and always seem to
come out at the right time.
>I think that a "normal" deck puts in play between 2 to 5
>vampires and it usually has only one master phase action.
>It represents 2 to 6 actions (including m.p. actions) per turn.
>
>The All Masters deck can put in play maybe 2 to 3 vampires
>and a maximum of 4 m.p. actions.
>It represents the "same" 2 to 6 actions (values "normalized")
>per turn.
>>Is this deck *really* playable?
Yup. Same # of actions per turn, right? =) We've found that the
deck has obnoxiously huge pool-gain, and so can ignore almost anything
but major sneek-n-bleed, and it bleed-bounces happily if things get
too bad. As someone posted in another response to this thread,
consider this several turns into the game (takes a l'il preparation).
Minion Tap your Anson for 8. Golconda Anson for 8. Tap the Parthenon
for a third action. Transfer four pool to your next copy of Anson and
bring him out untapped to block. Never underestimate the obscene pool
gain possible with this toy; and Anson's a prince so don't forget the
Fifth Tradition. And he's Torie, so can presence-bleed for laughs,
and of course the Elysium is included heavily. The crypt is full of
nasty l'il auspex weenies for nasty l'il intercept and for nasty l'il
bleed bounce.
We've seen it played several times now and are kinda familiar with it,
so the last time he played it, I was his prey as a B&B Tremere, and
his predator was a weird vote deck. On the third turn I put Charnas
the Imp on Anson. On the fourth turn I realized that wasn't going
anywhere fast enough and Havened Anson, called a vote to burn his
Elysium, was supported by his predator's non-combat deck's votes, then
rushed Anson and torporized him with one of my three Eldritch Glimmers
(and emptied out my own vamp doing it) just to get rid of the extra
master phase action, any evil Prince actions, and to save my own butt
from the pile of crud that would be coming my way later if I didn't.
The deck can be a huge pain if you let it get all its wheels on the
ground (one Anson, four or five weenies with bounce) and start
rolling. My predator voted for me partly to get rid of the competing
votes and partly to avoid letting a potential table-sweeper get
moving. Fortunately he hadn't drawn a second Anson in his initial
crypt, and with Anson in torpor but not burned it wasn't easy to fetch
another out. He did finally manage to Golconda Anson and get a new
one, but by then his own predator was moving right along and I had got
myself settled reasonably well.
>How should be the rest of the crypt? And how can these vampires>contribute in a deck like this? Bleed and pool gaining (only)?
Torie weenies have auspex, so they can bleed-bounce, pool-gain, and
aire-of-elation bleed. =)
>What could be an example of a turn with 3 m.p. actions and an
>Anson?
Don't forget the old classic: Anarch Revolt, Anarch Revolt,
Antediluvian Awakening. :)
>I imagine the sequence:
>(Misdirection, Secure Haven, Metro Underground, Legal Manipulations, Aire
>of Elation, untap Anson)
>(Misdirection, Elysium: Arboretum, Blood Doll, bleed as above, untap)
>(Misd, Pentex Subs, Ascendance, bleed, untap)
As someone else posted, being last standing is worth 2 VPs by itself;
from what i've seen this deck aims for that, tries to do as much
damage to everyone on the table as possible, and hopes to get one
spare VP from its prey beforehand from the Torie bleeds. a good shot
at 3 VPs out of a 5 person table? Works for me - I like the deck.
It's horribly amusing. =)
-- Derek
(replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)
lor...@nospam.nineball.org (Derek S. Ray) wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:59:03 -0000, "Luis P. Duarte"
><Luis....@ip.pt> wrote:
>>>Someone post an All Masters Deck sometime ago.>
>"Mostly Masters". =)
>
>That was Mike Perlman, from the Atlanta crowd. =) I believe this
>deck also took 2nd place in a recent Carolina tournament, right behind
>the nasty evil "Volker, May I?" deck which had Atonement, Guardian
>Angel, and bookoos of intercept and skill cards setting up a nice l'il
>"NONE SHALL PASS" setup.
Then again, I might be the perpretator of that post. I posted the all
masters deck I used in JOL Playtest8, with some amendments. Here are some
more. You are at total liberty to take this seriously or not.
>>I suppose it requires not only several Parthenon and
>>RoG (although only one Parthenon can be in play and
>>RoG resets the master phase to 2 m.p. actions),
>>but also Anson (which also only one can be in play...).
>>The total is 4 m.p. actions per turn, if one can achieve
>>to have it all well played...
Actually, if you plan to do an all masters deck, Rumors is out of it. I
strongly suggest you put in lots of Parthenon. The deck relies greatly on
it. 10 in a 60 card deck might seem like much, but you'll get to play a
Parthenon as your first card, and then follow with an Anarch Revolt. The
Barrens (3 copies) will insure that any extraneous Parthenons (you'll have
to replace that card after it's burned by an angry victim) are either
played or discarded. Try to keep a Parthenon in hand at all times.
>Nope, just 3. That's plenty though, we've found - he has way too many
>toys in the deck and you NEVER know what the hell he's got coming up
>next. When your entire deck is opportunity based, all those pricky
>l'il cards like Brujah Frenzy are lots more fun and always seem to
>come out at the right time.
Though you can do it with 2 actions, the use of Anson's ability (with a
Secure Haven, 3 copies) will give you a great push. You're going for speed
here. Assuming no one is bright enough to call votes to burn the Anarchs,
everyone will lose 5 or 6 pool a turn. Then they'll call votes, maybe. You
too need a good pool gain. I'd suggest either Minion Tap and Golconda once
each second turn, or the use of Blood Dolled weenies constantly on the
hunt. Tribute to the Master will take care of the non-Dolled vamps. I'd
rather go for the later myself, as it is less susceptible to Sudden
Reversals.
Now, what's for defense? Protected Resources as you won't be bleeding, of
course in case you get a high bleeder coming your way. Brujah Frenzy is
also a great card to use against the bad little Brujah who tries to Rampage
your Parthenon or rush your vamps.Major Boon will also help redistribute
bleeds. I also like to put in a few Minor Boons, in case my predator's
vamps get rushed by my grand-predator. It could happen and would be just so
great. Just make sure no vamp of yours go to torpor. Easy with a Golconda
the Anson deck.
Against votes, Direct Intervention is rather good, but you have to do it
before the terms are announced (assuming of course the terms aren't
announced at the same time the vote is played, like so often happens in JOL
games). So it's really a gamble, but you can usually guess if you enraged
someone enough to be a target. At least the vote card is burned and not
brought back in the player's hand.
>>I think that a "normal" deck puts in play between 2 to 5
>>vampires and it usually has only one master phase action.
>>It represents 2 to 6 actions (including m.p. actions) per turn.
>>
>>The All Masters deck can put in play maybe 2 to 3 vampires
>>and a maximum of 4 m.p. actions.
>>It represents the "same" 2 to 6 actions (values "normalized")
>>per turn.
You can use the vamp, sure, but it'd be better if you could actually manage
to do it all by yourself.
Remember that with Anarch Revolt and Antidiluvian Awakening, your master
phase actions actually hurt a lot more players than a simple bleed does. It
takes a few more turns to seriously hurt someone's pool, but then the next
victims are also quite softened up by your Anarchs. It's possible with two
master phase actions, it's only very long, but low-threat.
>>Is this deck *really* playable?
Depends on the table and those around. Depends if you can make yourself an
ally in the game. Same for all decks. I might try one such deck in a
tournament sometime.
>Yup. Same # of actions per turn, right? =) We've found that the
>deck has obnoxiously huge pool-gain, and so can ignore almost anything
>but major sneek-n-bleed, and it bleed-bounces happily if things get
>too bad. As someone posted in another response to this thread,
>consider this several turns into the game (takes a l'il preparation).
>Minion Tap your Anson for 8. Golconda Anson for 8. Tap the Parthenon
>for a third action. Transfer four pool to your next copy of Anson and
>bring him out untapped to block. Never underestimate the obscene pool
>gain possible with this toy; and Anson's a prince so don't forget the
>Fifth Tradition. And he's Torie, so can presence-bleed for laughs,
>and of course the Elysium is included heavily. The crypt is full of
>nasty l'il auspex weenies for nasty l'il intercept and for nasty l'il
>bleed bounce.
Woh! Too many minion cards to be called a "mostly" master deck.
>The deck can be a huge pain if you let it get all its wheels on the
>ground (one Anson, four or five weenies with bounce) and start
>rolling.>Fortunately he hadn't drawn a second Anson in his initial
>crypt, and with Anson in torpor but not burned it wasn't easy to fetch
>another out. He did finally manage to Golconda Anson and get a new
>one, but by then his own predator was moving right along and I had got
>myself settled reasonably well.
The morale of the story: Try not to rely on the vamps too much. In fact,
think of all masters decks as a meth taking care of business. By himself.
>>How should be the rest of the crypt? And how can these vampires
>>contribute in a deck like this? Bleed and pool gaining (only)?
Bleed? Not likely to succeed without the bruise or the stealth to make it
go through (unless using fortitude, but still).
Pool gain? SURE! Either through Minion Tap and Golconda or through Blood
Dolls and Tributes. Methuselahs, like Antidiluvians, have to feed from
other vampires.
>Torie weenies have auspex, so they can bleed-bounce, pool-gain, and
>aire-of-elation bleed. =)
masters deck?
>>What could be an example of a turn with 3 m.p. actions and an
>>Anson?>
>Don't forget the old classic: Anarch Revolt, Anarch Revolt,
>Antediluvian Awakening. :)
Indeed.
1st turn: Parthenon, Anarch Revolt,
2nd turn: Anarch Revolt, Anarch Revolt, and if lucky, get Anson out.
3rd turn: Anarchs x2 and a defensive card, either previously played as OOT
or put in play now. Secure Haven would be perfect. Protected Ressources if
needed. get the weenies out.
4th turn: You are now getting low on pool. Feed from the weenies. Put a
Blood Doll in play. Then play Anarchs. Effective Management would be nice
to get a new weenie out soon. Hunt with the empty weenies.
And so on. You'll have to play a Life Boon at times to keep your next prey
alive until you can get to him, but frankly there might be something to be
done with the Succubus Club. Let him believe there's something to be gained
in his prolonged existence. Let him believe he can maybe escape it.
>>I imagine the sequence:
>>(Misdirection, Secure Haven, Metro Underground, Legal Manipulations, Aire
>>of Elation, untap Anson)
>>(Misdirection, Elysium: Arboretum, Blood Doll, bleed as above, untap)
>>(Misd, Pentex Subs, Ascendance, bleed, untap)
Good, but I'd hesitate before risking Anson.
>As someone else posted, being last standing is worth 2 VPs by itself;
>from what i've seen this deck aims for that, tries to do as much
>damage to everyone on the table as possible, and hopes to get one
>spare VP from its prey beforehand from the Torie bleeds. a good shot
>at 3 VPs out of a 5 person table? Works for me - I like the deck.
>It's horribly amusing. =)
Last standing? This deck can clear the table, if properly played. Don't
bother preventing people from burning the Anarch Revolts, you don't want
them coming your way. Each Anarch Revolt you bring into play is a sure 1
pool loss for your prey (barring Sudden Reversal). It also usually makes a
few turns around the table. Make good use of Life Boon. The VPs that escape
you will come back to you.
For another take on the mostly master deck, ask Lord Legbiter of many
titles to repost his Betrayer deck again. Be warned though, it's a silly
deck. But soon to oust me anyway.
Bleu
Derek S. Ray wrote:
<snip>
> Minion Tap your Anson for 8. Golconda Anson for 8.
<snip>I believe this is no longer a viable plan.
Golconda now removes the vampire from the game
with no blood gain. Or did I miss something?
I know... cause I used to do the same trick.
One of the reasons I had taken out Golconda was
the removal of the pool gaining ability.
You forgot to Giant's Blood him first and use a
second Minion Tap. =)
LSJ Question: Does the new text specifying removal from
the game apply to future copies of the card in question?
Jack: The Truly Demented
ill...@swbell.net
In article <366601B6...@postoffice.swbell.net>,
ill...@swbell.net wrote:
> Derek S. Ray wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > Minion Tap your Anson for 8. Golconda Anson for 8.
>
> <snip>I believe this is no longer a viable plan.
> Golconda now removes the vampire from the game> with ?no ?blood ?gain.>Or did I miss something?
Evidently, you missed something. Golconda removes the vampire
from the gain after you gain the pool. It was errata'd to
prevent Soul Gem regrowth of vampires (buy 1 get 1 free).
(It doesn't burn the vamp which is what Soul Gem requires,
it removes them from the game so that the Soul Gem is not triggered.)
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
ill...@swbell.net wrote:
> LSJ Question: Does the new text [on Golconda] specifying removal from> the game apply to future copies of the card in question?
No, just as the old text specifying burning did not apply to
future copies of the card in question.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
[ quoted text not captured ]
TheLa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ill...@swbell.net wrote:
> > Golconda now removes the vampire from the game
> > with ?no ?blood ?gain.
>
> >Or did I miss something?
>
> Evidently, you missed something. Golconda removes the vampire
> from the gain after you gain the pool.
Right. (Well, before you gain pool, but you still gain the pool).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Thanks Jeff =)
TheLa...@hotmail.com wrote:
In article <366601B6...@postoffice.swbell.net>,
ill...@swbell.net wrote:
> Derek S. Ray wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > Minion Tap your Anson for 8. Golconda Anson for 8.
>
> <snip>I believe this is no longer a viable plan.> Golconda now removes the vampire from the game
> with ?no ?blood ?gain.>Or did I miss something?
Evidently, you missed something. Golconda removes the vampire
from the gain after you gain the pool. It was errata'd to
prevent Soul Gem regrowth of vampires (buy 1 get 1 free).
(It doesn't burn the vamp which is what Soul Gem requires,
it removes them from the game so that the Soul Gem is not triggered.)
Think I missed that particular errata. But then again I removed the Golconda'sand haven't been playing with them since. Perhaps it's time to revisit that
strategy again.
Query: What errata is this located in... last I really saw was
the 7/7 rulings... (very briefly) I've been away from the list for
awhile. Everyone I've been playing with except very recently has
been going on house rules and 4 card limits. The recent change has
been ok... but I got used to the limits.
Carpe Noctem.
I shall certainly seize the night.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra
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http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jack: The Truly Demented
ill...@swbell.net