In the latest posting on the V:TES Complete Rules Reference, it says the
following:
"any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero blood and
is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must be to hunt
with each of those Vampires. (6.4)"
Now I think there was a time, maybe a year or two ago, when the ruling
was different: if a ready vampire has no blood on it, it only has to
hunt if it had been ready at the beginning of your minion phase and had
not gone to torpor during this minion phase. This meant that if you
rescued a vampire from torpor and it had no blood on it, it didn't have
to hunt until your next turn came around. Of course, the only action it
could preform this turn would be to hunt.
Is the ruling in the Rules Reference a change from the old ruling, or
was the "new ruling" always the way things were?
Nick Lee <nl...@novice.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>In the latest posting on the V:TES Complete Rules Reference, it says the
>following:>"any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero blood and
>is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must be to hunt
>with each of those Vampires. (6.4)">Now I think there was a time, maybe a year or two ago, when the ruling
>was different: if a ready vampire has no blood on it, it only has to
>hunt if it had been ready at the beginning of your minion phase and had
>not gone to torpor during this minion phase. This meant that if you
>rescued a vampire from torpor and it had no blood on it, it didn't have
>to hunt until your next turn came around. Of course, the only action it
>could preform this turn would be to hunt.
That used to be the rule.
And that was still not the original rule.
Originally, the rule was as it is now.
>Is the ruling in the Rules Reference a change from the old ruling, or
>was the "new ruling" always the way things were?
The "New Ruling" is a return to the original ruling.
--
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http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | thinks slowest
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
Niq mentioned the following:
> In the latest posting on the V:TES Complete Rules Reference, it says the
> following:> "any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero blood and
> is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must be to hunt
> with each of those Vampires. (6.4)"
Suppose I have Angel at zero blood and she is Ready.
She is not prevented from hunting for any reason.
BUT, I choose to end my Minion Phase.
Can I do this, or must I hunt THIS turn with Angel?
Thanx,
Gord
ghfi...@landen.math.uwaterloo.ca (Gord Fischer) writes:
>> "any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero blood and
>> is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must be to hunt
>> with each of those Vampires. (6.4)">Suppose I have Angel at zero blood and she is Ready.
>She is not prevented from hunting for any reason.
>BUT, I choose to end my Minion Phase.>Can I do this, or must I hunt THIS turn with Angel?
You cannot end your minion phase early (before completing all
required events of the minion phase). In the same way, you
cannot choose to end your untap phase before burning a pool
if you have a Sabbat Threat counter.
Angel must hunt.
Also, you cannot choose to skip your minion phase if one of
your ready, untapped vampires is empty and is not prohibited
from hunting. (Normally, the minion phase is optional).
The only way to avoid this would be to skip your turn entirely,
which is only possible if a card like 1st tradition is out
which allows you to skip your turn.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:35:51 GMT, dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney)
wrote:
>Maybe I missed part of the original thread, if so, I apologize. Or
>this is an extension, for which I don't apologise ;)
>
>So, what happens if you cannot hunt and is at no blood?
>
>For example, a vampire rescued from torpor which has Pulled Fangs.
>Throw in a Fame to give me a reason to rescue it <;)
>
>So, if a minion is at zero blood and can't hunt, is it:
>
>a) able to take any action which does not require a blood cost
>
>b) precluded from doing anything.
>
>c) on the way to torpor
>
>Hint: The answer better not be "A" or "C", since I can come up with
>some really nasty Fame uses for both of them. One of my friends has a
>deck which uses something like this, and we've both been wondering
>even since a combo came up.
Thank god the answer is B then
>Darby "Thank God Fame was Errata'ed" Keeney
>
>
>*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***
Maybe I missed part of the original thread, if so, I apologize. Or
this is an extension, for which I don't apologise ;)
So, what happens if you cannot hunt and is at no blood?
For example, a vampire rescued from torpor which has Pulled Fangs.
Throw in a Fame to give me a reason to rescue it <;)
So, if a minion is at zero blood and can't hunt, is it:
a) able to take any action which does not require a blood cost
b) precluded from doing anything.
c) on the way to torpor
Hint: The answer better not be "A" or "C", since I can come up with
some really nasty Fame uses for both of them. One of my friends has a
deck which uses something like this, and we've both been wondering
even since a combo came up.
Darby "Thank God Fame was Errata'ed" Keeney
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
It came up in a recent game - what happens to a vampire with Talbot's
Chainsaw and a Rutor's hand (or any other way of untapping during a
minion phase)? If the bearer of Talbot's is reduced to zero and then
untaps, can they use the inherent Bum's rush of the chainsaw, or are they
unable to perform any action (since they can't hunt)?
--
Chris Shorb
ino...@ix.netcom.com
[insert obscure/pithy/witty quote here]
Chris Shorb <ino...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>It came up in a recent game - what happens to a vampire with Talbot's
>Chainsaw and a Rutor's hand (or any other way of untapping during a
>minion phase)? If the bearer of Talbot's is reduced to zero and then
>untaps, can they use the inherent Bum's rush of the chainsaw, or are they
>unable to perform any action (since they can't hunt)?
Any untapped, ready, empty vampire who is prevented from hunting is
stuck - that vampire cannot take any action.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Washington, DC:
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | America's work-free
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dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney) writes:
>Maybe I missed part of the original thread, if so, I apologize. Or
>this is an extension, for which I don't apologise ;)>So, what happens if you cannot hunt and is at no blood?
It is stuck (it can take no action). This is because the only action
it is allowed to take (hunting) is prohibited.
>For example, a vampire rescued from torpor which has Pulled Fangs.
>Throw in a Fame to give me a reason to rescue it <;)>So, if a minion is at zero blood and can't hunt, is it:>a) able to take any action which does not require a blood cost
>
>b) precluded from doing anything.>c) on the way to torpor
The normal answer (B) is overridden by card text on Pulled Fangs:
"If the victim must hunt and cannot, he or she goes into torpor."
This card text invokes exactly the condition you have met (having
to hunt and being unable to hunt), so (C), off to torpor you go.
>Hint: The answer better not be "A" or "C", since I can come up with
>some really nasty Fame uses for both of them. One of my friends has a
>deck which uses something like this, and we've both been wondering
>even since a combo came up.
Since the combo involves relying on having someone else
pull your fangs, it is't a reliable combo.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>Since the combo involves relying on having someone else
>pull your fangs, it is't a reliable combo.
True - but who said anything about using Pulled Fangs. That was only
Misdirection. There are other ways to prevent my minions from hunting
};)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Darby Keeney wrote:
>
> So, what happens if you cannot hunt and is at no blood?
>
You do nothing.
> For example, a vampire rescued from torpor which has Pulled Fangs.
> Throw in a Fame to give me a reason to rescue it <;)
Bad example. There is specific text on PF describing what happens.
It specifically says that if the vampire is at 0 blood it goes to
topor.
>
> So, if a minion is at zero blood and can't hunt, is it:
>
> a) able to take any action which does not require a blood cost
>
> b) precluded from doing anything.
>
> c) on the way to torpor
>
b
This situation has been discussed as a by product of what happens
when a vampires capacity becomes 0. It cannot hunt since it is at
capacity. It must hunt since it is at 0. Result = cannot do anything.
dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney) writes:
>>Since the combo involves relying on having someone else
>>pull your fangs, it is't a reliable combo.>True - but who said anything about using Pulled Fangs. That was only
>Misdirection. There are other ways to prevent my minions from hunting
Well, you have to use Pulled Fangs if you want to go to torpor.
As I said, the usual answer is 'B'. Only card text (from Pulled
Fangs) turns the situation into 'C'. If you don't use Pulled Fangs,
you'll have to find some other card that forces you into Torpor
when you have to hunt and cannot.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Darby Keeney wrote:
> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote:
> >As I said, the usual answer is 'B'. Only card text (from Pulled
> >Fangs) turns the situation into 'C'. If you don't use Pulled Fangs,
> >you'll have to find some other card that forces you into Torpor
> >when you have to hunt and cannot.> Not true - think Talbot's Chainsaw, and do the damage to the wielder,
> sending it to torpor. In torpor, and can't hunt if rescued, unless it
> unequips the Chainsaw. I've actually seen it.
This sends you to torpor because you take damage that you cannot
pay to heal, not because you have to hunt and cannot.
There are plenty of ways to get into torpor. I do not dispute that.
[ quoted text not captured ]
sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote:
>dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney) writes:>>>Since the combo involves relying on having someone else
>>>pull your fangs, it is't a reliable combo.>>True - but who said anything about using Pulled Fangs. That was only
>>Misdirection. There are other ways to prevent my minions from hunting>Well, you have to use Pulled Fangs if you want to go to torpor.>As I said, the usual answer is 'B'. Only card text (from Pulled>Fangs) turns the situation into 'C'. If you don't use Pulled Fangs,
>you'll have to find some other card that forces you into Torpor
>when you have to hunt and cannot.>-->L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Washington, DC:
>http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | America's work-free
>Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | drug place
Not true - think Talbot's Chainsaw, and do the damage to the wielder,
sending it to torpor. In torpor, and can't hunt if rescued, unless it
unequips the Chainsaw. I've actually seen it.
*** Disclaimer: These are the opinions of the poster not Amgen Inc.***
I would suggest a Dawn Op with Fame. It does not matter what
action you take, you go to topor. You can be rescued with
0 blood, then hunt using Dawn Op. You will go to topor with
1 blood.
It even more abusive in the classical Gangrel infinite loop
deck. Fame is used along with Force of Will or Dawn Op,
Movement of the Slow Body and Rapid Healing (usually with
some supporting stealth via Earth Control).
This abuse is one of the reasons they made the no repeat
actions rule.
Michael Kelly wrote:
>
> I would suggest a Dawn Op with Fame. It does not matter what
> action you take, you go to topor. You can be rescued with
> 0 blood, then hunt using Dawn Op. You will go to topor with
> 1 blood.
Only if you get blocked and get damaged in combat.
In general, it would be very hard to get into torpor
simply acting with a Famous vampire at Dawn - who's
going to be foolish enough to block?
[ quoted text not captured ]
Michael Kelly wrote:
>
> I would suggest a Dawn Op with Fame. It does not matter what
> action you take, you go to topor. You can be rescued with
> 0 blood, then hunt using Dawn Op. You will go to topor with
> 1 blood.
>> It even more abusive in the classical Gangrel infinite loop
> deck. Fame is used along with Force of Will or Dawn Op,
> Movement of the Slow Body and Rapid Healing (usually with
> some supporting stealth via Earth Control).
>
> This abuse is one of the reasons they made the no repeat
> actions rule.
Oops. I meant Day Op at inferior, not Dawn Op.
> In general, it would be very hard to get into torpor
> simply acting with a Famous vampire at Dawn - who's
> going to be foolish enough to block?
Well, I was in a similar situation, where the famous vamp was bleeding
me for two, and I declined to block; then it became a bleed for four...
Oh, well...
James
--
James Hamblin
je...@cornell.edu
---------------------------------------------------
"Well, Mulder didn't say that it _was_ Alex Trebek,
just someone who looked extremely like him."
-- Dana Scully, X-Files:
"Jose Chung's _From Outer Space_"
Thus saith L. Scott Johnson the Unworthy, in the Year of Our Lord Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:57:14 -0500 :
> Michael Kelly wrote:
> In general, it would be very hard to get into torpor
> simply acting with a Famous vampire at Dawn - who's
> going to be foolish enough to block?
I think Day Ops would be the card he meant.
Hardrock
--
Hardrock Llewynyth a.g.AB founding member (DNRC)
hard...@speakeasy.org http://www.speakeasy.org/~hardrock
[Hardrock]
-----------------begin Geek Code block----------------
Geek Code v. 3.1
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--------------------end Geek Code----------------------
James Hamblin wrote:
>
> > In general, it would be very hard to get into torpor
> > simply acting with a Famous vampire at Dawn - who's
> > going to be foolish enough to block?
>> Well, I was in a similar situation, where the famous vamp was bleeding
> me for two, and I declined to block; then it became a bleed for four...
> Oh, well...
>
> James
> --
>
> James Hamblin
> je...@cornell.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "Well, Mulder didn't say that it _was_ Alex Trebek,
> just someone who looked extremely like him."
> -- Dana Scully, X-Files:
> "Jose Chung's _From Outer Space_"
After the acting minion plays an action modifier, you get another chance
to block even if you earlier declined.
--
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STOP SPAM!
NOTE: If you wish to respond to me via email, please remove the * from
the return address!
Rob LeGood wrote:
> James Hamblin wrote:
> > Well, I was in a similar situation, where the famous vamp was bleeding
> > me for two, and I declined to block; then it became a bleed for four...
> > Oh, well...
>> After the acting minion plays an action modifier, you get another chance
> to block even if you earlier declined.
Actually, the descision to block or not is final.
After you decline to block, the acting minion is free to
modify the action without worrying that you will attempt
to block later. You are still free to react (deflect, etc.),
however.
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Just a quibble, but a vampire hunting because of having no blood lacks
the wherewithal to play Day Op, due to that modifier's cost of one
blood.
Of course, there are enough ways that Day Operation + Fame can really
tick people off.
Tom
In article <5ef011$3...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L.
Scott Johnson) wrote:
> dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney) writes:
> >>Since the combo involves relying on having someone else
> >>pull your fangs, it is't a reliable combo.
>
> >True - but who said anything about using Pulled Fangs. That was only
> >Misdirection. There are other ways to prevent my minions from hunting
>
> Well, you have to use Pulled Fangs if you want to go to torpor.
>
> As I said, the usual answer is 'B'. Only card text (from Pulled
> Fangs) turns the situation into 'C'. If you don't use Pulled Fangs,
> you'll have to find some other card that forces you into Torpor
> when you have to hunt and cannot.
>> --
> L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Washington, DC:
> http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | America's work-free
> Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | drug place
From what I remember there was either an errat that removed the
hunt=torpor or it was dropped from the card (in some reissue of the card).
Has that changed or am I remembering wrong. Tom??
--
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e-mail: *makes sence. But the real universe is always
Herbe...@osu.edu *one step beyond logic.
*
*Shit happens is deeper than it sounds.
Phaedrus (herbe...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: In article <5ef011$3...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L.
: Scott Johnson) wrote:: > dke...@amgen.com (Darby Keeney) writes:
: > Fangs) turns the situation into 'C'. If you don't use Pulled Fangs,: > you'll have to find some other card that forces you into Torpor
: > when you have to hunt and cannot.: From what I remember there was either an errat that removed the: hunt=torpor or it was dropped from the card (in some reissue of the card).
: Has that changed or am I remembering wrong. Tom??
Tom? :-)
Both the Jyhad and the VtES versions have the hunt=torpor text,
and no errata has been issued.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
> Actually, the descision to block or not is final.
> After you decline to block, the acting minion is free to
> modify the action without worrying that you will attempt
> to block later. You are still free to react (deflect, etc.),
> however.
>
After you've declined to block, suppose the acting minion modifies the
action. Can a vampire wake and block at this point?
Another similar question which recently came up: suppose
a vampire wakes (before he's declined to block, if it matters),
and attempts to block. He acting minion adds stealth. Can the
waking vampire then play reaction cards?
[ quoted text not captured ]
As it says above, NO. Only when card text overrules this. For example,
You are bled, fail to block and deflect. Then that player deflects
back to you. Now you can try to block again because the card text
for Deflect says you can. But otherwise you are stuck. If he bleeds
for 1 and you decline to block, then if he adds 3 to the bleed with
a conditioning you can not block. That is why a action modifier that
enhances a bleed is so much more dangerous than an action that
enhances a bleed. You can choose to play the action modifier AFTER
he declines to block. So if you have 5 minion with dominate, you can
save the conditioning for the one that is not blocked.
Dan Hollis (dan.h...@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: > Actually, the descision to block or not is final.
: > After you decline to block, the acting minion is free to
: > modify the action without worrying that you will attempt
: > to block later. You are still free to react (deflect, etc.),
: > however.
: >
: After you've declined to block, suppose the acting minion modifies the
: action. Can a vampire wake and block at this point?
No. He can Wake, but since you've declined to block...
: Another similar question which recently came up: suppose: a vampire wakes (before he's declined to block, if it matters),
: and attempts to block. He acting minion adds stealth. Can the
: waking vampire then play reaction cards?
Yes. This is explicitly stated on the Wake With Evening's Freshness
card text: "can play reaction cards as if untapped"
[ quoted text not captured ]