[LSJ] Transfer phase timing question

Hey LSJ, I understand the current rule, which you explained here: http://tinyurl.com/6jkxg "The last thing that happens in the influence phase is the moving of full vampires to the ready region, though. No more transfers after that." What I don't understand is: why? What is the benefit to the game? This rule, when enforced, seems only to serve to penalize new players at tournaments; I don't see any significant benefit to it, and is inconsistent with the way all the other phases end. I'm probably missing something, so I'm hoping you could enlighten me. Someone asked me this "why?" question at a recent tournament, and my only answer was, "LSJ said so." Which I normally find to be a completely pleasing answer, but in this case I wanted to get clarification. Thanks! Ira P.S. WOO HOO!! Succubus Club is Banned! Oh, the world is a great place.

ira...@gmail.com <ira...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey LSJ, > I understand the current rule, which you explained here: > http://tinyurl.com/6jkxg > "The last thing that happens in the influence phase is the moving of > full vampires to the ready region, though. No more transfers after > that." > What I don't understand is: why? What is the benefit to the game? What's wrong with this rule? It makes the influence phase consistent, and serves to clarify the timing of such things as Angela Preston's special ability (which cannot be used on the turn she is moved to the ready region for this reason) or Ingrid Rossler's ability (you do not get 2 more transfers during the current influence phase). In practice (in my experience), most players and many judges will "let it slide" if players flip their full vampires over into the ready region before they're done making all their transfers, even in tournaments. It's one of those things that is technically against the rules but "everybody does it" (much like people putting the Praxis Seizure card onto a vampire even when it should go to the ash heap). The rule is not intended as a "gotcha" for newbies.

> "The last thing that happens in the influence phase is the moving of > full vampires to the ready region, though. No more transfers after > that." > > What I don't understand is: why? What is the benefit to the game? It's actually to a newbie's benefit that this rule is in place. Do out your transfers and then you check each vampire one by one to see if they're full. It gives you one last chance to change your mind (if playing loose with the rules) and another opportunity to see what all your cards do. Are you really trying to tell me that players can't understand 1. Do Transfers 2. Move Vampires ???

Jozxyqk wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Correct. It does not penalize newbies. If the newbie improperly moves his uncontrolled vampire to the ready region before the end of his influence phase, then back up and do it right. On the other hand, the "benefit" to this rule is that it is written in the rulebook, and being able to follow the rulebook rules is a benefit (errata bad, mkay?). Naturally, there are a thousand permutations that could have been written, but only one ever is (at a given time). The rule also affects things like vampires who give you more transfers. You cannot transfer them out and then immediately use their abilities. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote: > Are you really trying to tell me that players can't understand > 1. Do Transfers > 2. Move Vampires > ??? Actually, yes. Monkey see, monkey do. If a newbie comes to the table and sees experienced players doing it "wrong" in a casual game just because they know what they're doing, consistently, and said newbie doesn't catch this in the rulebook, he may just assume that the game works this way without question.

> why? summed up into two words: consistence (do a then b, instead of a then b then a then a then b again) gamebalance (ingrid rossler etc.)

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:UkGQd.222491$w62....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > On the other hand, the "benefit" to this rule is that it is written > in the rulebook, and being able to follow the rulebook rules is > a benefit (errata bad, mkay?). > > Naturally, there are a thousand permutations that could have been > written, but only one ever is (at a given time). "Only one ever is..." what? You sound as if there's some requirement to chose a permutation. There isn't. All the permutations (or some subset) could be made legal simultaneously - acting player's choice (as is permitted in many other situations). Not saying it's bad or it's good from my point of view. The above reasoning seemed flawed to me, though. > The rule also affects things like vampires who give you more transfers. > You cannot transfer them out and then immediately use their abilities. This seems like it's much more important. The cards and the other rules of the game may hinge on the requirement to transfer first, then move vampires. If you suddenly change the rule once it's been in place for all this time, you have to be careful about the consequences. (Though I'm not sure how many, since I'm not very good at remembering what all the cards in the game do.) Fred

"Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote in message news:C9JQd.9090$ds.3335@okepread07... > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > > Naturally, there are a thousand permutations that could have been > > written, but only one ever is (at a given time). > > "Only one ever is..." what? You sound as if there's some requirement to > chose a permutation. There isn't. All the permutations (or some subset) > could be made legal simultaneously - acting player's choice (as is > permitted in many other situations). > > Not saying it's bad or it's good from my point of view. The above > reasoning seemed flawed to me, though. You've missed something. There are a thousand permutations of how any given rule could have been written. Upon writing the given rule, one of those is chosen and the rest are not. QED. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

> If a newbie comes to the table and sees experienced players doing > it "wrong" in a casual game just because they know what they're doing, > consistently, and said newbie doesn't catch this in the rulebook, > he may just assume that the game works this way without question. > All the more reason to hold the experienced players to the actual rules.

Jozxyqk wrote: > In practice (in my experience), most players and many judges will > "let it slide" if players flip their full vampires over into the > ready region before they're done making all their transfers, even in > tournaments. It's one of those things that is technically against the > rules but "everybody does it" (much like people putting the Praxis > Seizure card onto a vampire even when it should go to the ash heap). In one of the NACs, Mike Ooi was a judge and cut me some slack. One of the players called for a judge because I flipped up Salbatore and put 4 counters on him, instead of putting 4 counters on him and *then* flipping him up. I believe the official ruling on that one was "shut up and play." :) -- David Cherryholmes david.che...@gmail.com "OK. So be it. It's not my view, but whatever makes you happy, right? I'm all about making you happy, Dave. :-)" -- LSJ, V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:2005021610...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Like calling the Judge when a player flips over a vampire then moves blood to it? Raille