(LSJ) Impulse in the untap phase

Hi, Anarch Revolt is in play - let's say A controls it. It is A's untap phase, and A doesn't control a ready Anarch. A is on 1 pool. D has a Burn Option card in his hand. * Can A let go the impulse, and wait for D to use the burn option (and maybe replace with a Life Boon), thus postponing the Anarch Revolt pool loss? I think A can't. * Can A do so, if the Anarch Revolt is controlled by E? Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty vampire. Anarch Revolt is controlled by E. * Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ? * B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ? [The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling] Thanks. ~ ~ Anarch Revolt Cardtype: Master Master. Put this card in play. A Methuselah who does not control a ready anarch burns 1 pool during his or her untap phase. Any vampire can call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action. Owain Evans, The Wanderer Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Ventrue antitribu Group: 3 Capacity: 8 Discipline: cel pre AUS DOM FOR Sabbat: During any Methuselah's untap phase, if Owain is ready, you may move a blood from the blood bank to a vampire that Methuselah controls. Vessel Cardtype: Master Cost: 1 pool Master: trifle. Put this card on a vampire, and you may burn a Blood Doll in play (if any). During this vampire's controller's untap phase, he or she may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire.

On Jul 23, 5:24 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Anarch Revolt is in play - let's say A controls it. > It is A's untap phase, and A doesn't control a ready Anarch. > A is on 1 pool. > > D has a Burn Option card in his hand. > > * Can A let go the impulse, and wait for D to use the burn option (and > maybe replace with a Life Boon), thus postponing the Anarch Revolt > pool loss? > > I think A can't. "Can A pass"? No, as you say. Passing is equivalent to saying "I'm done with untap effects (but may revisit that decision if someone else does something)" > * Can A do so, if the Anarch Revolt is controlled by E? No. > Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty > vampire. > Anarch Revolt is controlled by E. > * Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use > the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ? No, since C never gets the opportunity to move 1 blood from Owain. > * B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ? When A and B pass, of course. > > [The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather > Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling] It knows the same handling. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty > > vampire. > > Anarch Revolt is controlled by E. > > * Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use > > the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ? > > No, since C never gets the opportunity to move 1 blood from Owain. > > > * B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ? > > When A and B pass, of course. > > > > > [The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather > > Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling] > > It knows the same handling. If New Inquisition is in play and B controlled Owain, you could target B w/ NI creating a damage resolution phase, thereby allowing B to use effects in the untap phase like Owains' special before B resolves damage.

[ quoted text not captured ] Why do you keep the concept of impulse out of the rulebook in a clear way. It would simplify things in so many levels. Is there a good reason not to use it? What is it? TB

[ quoted text not captured ] It's in the rulebook. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ 1.6.1.5 Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, she may play another and another. Once she is finished, the opportunity passes to the defending Methuselah (in the cases of directed actions and combat), then to the rest of the Methuselahs in clockwise order from the acting Methuselah. Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to play the next effect.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hence the "in a clear way" and by that I mean in a literal way. Not just in this part, but throughout the text.

[ quoted text not captured ] I agree with brum here, the rulebook here is somewhat obtuse and hard to understand easily. The aim might be to make this easier to grasp for new players so as to facilitate an easier and faster uptake of the *ahem* complex rules of VtES.

[ quoted text not captured ] I'd say that the part about sequencing is pretty clear. Haven't checked if/how correct sequencing is used in the rulebook examples though. But yeah, overall the rulebook could probably use some kind of overhaul.

[ quoted text not captured ] The rulebook section quoted seems pretty clear. Suggested improved wording welcomed.

[ quoted text not captured ] I agree that with a fair amount of time and understanding of the english language it is easy to grasp the major aspects of the rules. We all wish for the game to grow and more people come to come in. Some of those newcomers don't have a grasp of the english language to see what for you is obvious. Sure, one must know enough English to understand the game and play it, but between Oxford graduate and totally illiterate in English, there are many shades of gray. And we all have had to explain rules or rulings to people how just didn't get it at 1st or 2nd try and still though afterwords that they were just to ominous to try to understand. I don't like my players to do that. I like them to understand and don't talk of such things "just because". I'll illustrate with a rough, 5 minute sketch example (probably full of flaws, but bear with me): Somewhere in the beginning of the rule book: "Vampire is a dynamic multilayer game where players interact, bla, bla, bla. (...) <Explain here that the game is played in turns where the player playing is the acting methuselah> (...) <Explain here that the player holding impulse gets to play cards or declare effects according to the state or phase the game is in> (...) <Explain here that once the player holding impulse finished playing cards or declaring effects, he gives impulse to another player and explain how impulse moves from player to player> Throughout the text on each specific part, use the impulse terminology introduced in the beginning in a familiar way, like in these examples: "Bill announces that Lucinde is hunting and taps Lucinde. The action is undirected and has +1 stealth. Impulse goes to his Prey that declares is not blocking or playing effects. Then impulse goes to Bill's Predator, Leoben. Leoben plays a reaction that gives +1 intercept to one of his untapped minions, Banjoko. Leoban gives impulse away and it goes to the rest of the methuselahs in clockwise order until it reaches Bill again. All players give impulse away without playing cards or effects, Banjoko is tapped and Lucinde starts combat with him". "Laura announces Lodin is bleeding Baltar and gives impulse away. Baltar passes impulse and all other methulahs also passe it clockwise until Laura has impulse again. She plays a Bonding (an action modifier that adds 1 to the bleed). She passes impulse and so do all the other players, in order. Baltar is bled for 2 pool." Although this might introduce a bit more text to the rulebook, it would make it easier for people to understand stuff like Anneke, KRCG on other players's minions, Draba when you're not acting or being target, master out of turn timing, etc. This might prove to bring more problems than solutions, but I find the discussion interesting. Cheers, Tiago

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >The rulebook section quoted seems pretty clear. > >Suggested improved wording welcomed. It seems fine for the printed rulebook, given the obvious space constraints - and that any extra text may well require removing text from a printed booklet. For the online rulebook, however, it might be nice to add a few more examples for important or difficult concepts. A small amount of HTML+CSS could highlight the bits that aren't in the printed rulebook - a shaded background, a dotted line border, or whatever. Items that might be worth including a little more information on include: - the impulse/sequencing - the referendum (which is an exception to the ordinary impulse) - the Imbued rules (so you can have one document including them, alongside the ordinary rules). -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.