Infernal Familiar Q's:

Infernal Familiar [Sabbat] Cardtype: Retainer Cost: 2 blood Discipline: Thaumaturgy [Demon] with 2 life. The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a Discipline he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level of that Discipline; if he or she does so, place an investment counter on the Infernal Familiar. If the number of investment counters on the Familiar is greater than his controller's capacity, burn the controlling vampire. 1) If I use the IF (Inferanl Familiar) in combat for a strike card and it makes my vampire burn, does the combat end immediately and no damage is dealt on opposing vmapire? What if I use the IF to prevent with a preventioncard before my opponent prevents any damage and I burn, will opponent have to prevent or take damage, or is combat ended before that? 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? 3) If a minion has 2 IF's and it plays a card through their ability, does both IF's receive counters or just one of them (if so, which?) 4) A vamp with IF and one counter away from burning and no NEC uses Amaranth in Combat and wants to play Soul Stealing, can he wait to play it until after he receives a skillcard form the Amaranth (and thus increases in capacity) or does he have to play the SS before and thus burn due to IF? 5) If Talaq the Immortal recruits IF, does it get counters each time he uses THA afterwards? :-) 6) What happens if an IF with counters is moved to an ally? I assume nothing changes, the counters are still in place but has no effect? I notice the IF is a typed as Demon now...cool :)

"Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:a1tk58$sn2a3$3...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de... > Infernal Familiar [Sabbat] > Cardtype: Retainer > > Cost: 2 blood > > Discipline: Thaumaturgy > > [Demon] with 2 life. > The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a Discipline he > or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level of that Discipline; > if he or she does so, place an investment counter on the Infernal Familiar. > If the number of investment counters on the Familiar is greater than his > controller's capacity, burn the controlling vampire. > > > 1) If I use the IF (Inferanl Familiar) in combat for a strike card and it > makes my vampire burn, does the combat end immediately and no damage is > dealt on opposing vmapire? What if I use the IF to prevent with a > preventioncard before my opponent prevents any damage and I burn, will > opponent have to prevent or take damage, or is combat ended before that? If combat ends before strike resolution the opposing minion will take no damage. As soon as one of the minions involved in combat ceases to be ready ( like by being burned by an IF ) combat ends immediately, so the answer to your first question is yes. Second question is a bit more tricky, I would think that combat will end but the opposing minion will be able to prevent. > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says that you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. > 3) If a minion has 2 IF's and it plays a card through their ability, does > both IF's receive counters or just one of them (if so, which?) Not sure why you'd have 2 but still, as far as the existing card text goes you'd get one on each, again, the same ruling above, if made would allow you to choose which one to use and hence which one would get the counter. > 4) A vamp with IF and one counter away from burning and no NEC uses Amaranth > in Combat and wants to play Soul Stealing, can he wait to play it until > after he receives a skillcard form the Amaranth (and thus increases in > capacity) or does he have to play the SS before and thus burn due to IF? All the effects of Amaranth ( including the benefits of diablerie ) occur before you play Soul Stealing so you can get your skill card before you play SS. > 5) If Talaq the Immortal recruits IF, does it get counters each time he uses > THA afterwards? :-) Talaq cannot use IF "The vampire with this retainer..." Talaq is not a vampire. > 6) What happens if an IF with counters is moved to an ally? I assume nothing > changes, the counters are still in place but has no effect? The counters remain but they have no effect, an ally has life and does not have capacity. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Will be able to prevent? Do you mean that he takes damage if he doesn't prevent, or that he doesn't take any damage but he can prevent to cycle cards if he wants to? (wouldn't that be an illegal play of prevention cards?) > > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through > > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? > > Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says that > you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. I think so too. However you should then be able to say that you play Obeah through the IF and not Ian's ability if you wanted to. > > 3) If a minion has 2 IF's and it plays a card through their ability, does > > both IF's receive counters or just one of them (if so, which?) > > Not sure why you'd have 2 but still, as far as the existing card text goes > you'd get one on each, again, the same ruling above, if made would allow you > to choose which one to use and hence which one would get the counter. There's a couple of reasons cases where you'd end up with 2 IF's on a vampire, usually if you have a Castle Heidelberg in play. Say you have Muaziz out, she can to the recruits with +2 stealth and then you transfer them via Heidelberg to another vamp. But then before you do that you need to use the Heidelberg for other purposes, leaving her with 2 IF's for a while. Or you could WANT to have 2 or more IF's on a vamp to get manyt counters on it, until you Mind Rape some vamps and transfer it to them to burn them.

"Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:a1ugeg$svo41$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de... [ quoted text not captured ] Now that I think about it, if you are burned by IF whilst playing prevention your opponent still resolves his damage prevention and resolution. If you are burned by an opposing minion in combat ( by, say agg damage ) he still has to take or prevent your damage, being burned by IF would be any different. Damage prevention and resolution is simoultaneous for the two minions involved in combat ( unless one has First Strike of course ). > > > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through > > > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says that > > > you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. > > I think so too. However you should then be able to say that you play Obeah > through the IF and not Ian's ability if you wanted to. Of course. Basically, if I were a Judge I think it would be common sense to rule that you can choose through what means you are playing the card and suffer whatever the consequences of doing so are. > > > 3) If a minion has 2 IF's and it plays a card through their ability, does > > > both IF's receive counters or just one of them (if so, which?) > > > > Not sure why you'd have 2 but still, as far as the existing card text goes > > you'd get one on each, again, the same ruling above, if made would allow you > > to choose which one to use and hence which one would get the counter. > > There's a couple of reasons cases where you'd end up with 2 IF's on a > vampire, usually if you have a Castle Heidelberg in play. Say you have > Muaziz out, she can to the recruits with +2 stealth and then you transfer > them via Heidelberg to another vamp. But then before you do that you need to > use the Heidelberg for other purposes, leaving her with 2 IF's for a while. > Or you could WANT to have 2 or more IF's on a vamp to get manyt counters on > it, until you Mind Rape some vamps and transfer it to them to burn them. Heh, you have an evil mind like mine :) I love playing Settites and borrowing and stealing peoples stuff. I even use the ones with DOM so I can play Mind Rape and Kine Dominance. Nope, no PRE/OBF bleed over here, no sir, it's SER/OBF for me thanks.

GreySeer wrote: > "Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message > > Infernal Familiar [Sabbat] > > 1) If I use the IF (Inferanl Familiar) in combat for a strike card and it > > makes my vampire burn, does the combat end immediately and no damage is > > dealt on opposing vmapire? What if I use the IF to prevent with a > > preventioncard before my opponent prevents any damage and I burn, will > > opponent have to prevent or take damage, or is combat ended before that? > > If combat ends before strike resolution the opposing minion will take no > damage. As soon as one of the minions involved in combat ceases to be ready > ( like by being burned by an IF ) combat ends immediately, so the answer to > your first question is yes. Second question is a bit more tricky, I would > think that combat will end but the opposing minion will be able to prevent. Correct. The damage is already inflicted on both minions by the time either one gets around to preventing. > > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through > > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? > > Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says that > you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever employ an Infernal Familiar? > > 3) If a minion has 2 IF's and it plays a card through their ability, does > > both IF's receive counters or just one of them (if so, which?) > > Not sure why you'd have 2 but still, as far as the existing card text goes > you'd get one on each, again, the same ruling above, if made would allow you > to choose which one to use and hence which one would get the counter. Right again. > > 4) A vamp with IF and one counter away from burning and no NEC uses > Amaranth > > in Combat and wants to play Soul Stealing, can he wait to play it until > > after he receives a skillcard form the Amaranth (and thus increases in > > capacity) or does he have to play the SS before and thus burn due to IF? > > All the effects of Amaranth ( including the benefits of diablerie ) occur > before you play Soul Stealing so you can get your skill card before you play > SS. Correct. > > 5) If Talaq the Immortal recruits IF, does it get counters each time he > uses > > THA afterwards? :-) > > Talaq cannot use IF "The vampire with this retainer..." Talaq is not a > vampire. Correct. > > 6) What happens if an IF with counters is moved to an ally? I assume > nothing > > changes, the counters are still in place but has no effect? > > The counters remain but they have no effect, an ally has life and does not > have capacity. Very difficult to move an retainer to an ally, but the answer is correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever employ an Infernal Familiar? > Lazerus, who has an infernal familiar with 7 counters on it, mind rapes at superior Ian Forestal and Hiedleburg's the infernal familiar onto Ian Forestal. How's about that? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

X_Zealot wrote: > > > Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever > employ an Infernal Familiar? > > > > Lazerus, who has an infernal familiar with 7 counters on it, mind rapes at > superior Ian Forestal and Hiedleburg's the infernal familiar onto Ian > Forestal. > > How's about that? Not quite "pressing" :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C43675A...@white-wolf.com... > X_Zealot wrote: > > > > > Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever > > employ an Infernal Familiar? > > > > > > > Lazerus, who has an infernal familiar with 7 counters on it, mind rapes at > > superior Ian Forestal and Hiedleburg's the infernal familiar onto Ian > > Forestal. > > > > How's about that? > > Not quite "pressing" :-) Well add a few more examples and I think it is :P 1) You have only smaller vamps with inferior dominate and Ian. You also have a Heidelberg. You want Ian to do the action so he can use Seduction at superior to stop that prince from trying to block with 2nd Trad. Before you get to transfer IF to another vamp he uses some disciplines through his ability. It would really not be good if there was counters put on the IF, since the IF is to be transferred to smaller vamps later and if it's transferred to a 4 cap vamp with 2 counters on it already there's not much of a point... 2) You have some vamps plus Ian and a Heidelberg. Ian is currently the only one that has enough of blood to do it without being real low on blood afterwards (smething you might want to avoid). 3) Same as above but you're jammed on out of clan discipline cards and if Ian blocked he can at least cycle some of those, while the others can't. 4) At the time you did the recruit IF action, Ian was the only vamp you had ready, and you did it to cycle the card. 5) Your deck is built around a strategy where you WANT to get counters on the IF and then give it to a Mind Raped vamp. When doing so you want to transfer all blood from the Midn Raped vamp to Ian, because he's the vamp of your minions that currently needs to be filled up. So if if you have the IF on Kij Dansky you can't tap Heidelberg to tranfer the IF from her to the Mind Raped vamp AND tranfser that vamp's blood unto Ian. Thus when Ian does his Mind Rape the turn before, you tap Heidelberg to transfer the IF to Ian so that you can Transfer it again to the Mind Raped vampire the following turn AND refill Ian all in one. The IF has alrady a lot of counters on it, and Ian now has to have the IF for a whole turn before the Mind Rape kicks in. It can be very important to be able to play with disciplines through Ian's special ability meanwhile, and not risking to get him burnst in the process... I've given 5 perfectly viable examples where Ian ends up with an IF (happened me several times when I played my !Tremere/Salubri-IF deck in Christmas) plus the one given by X_Zealot, are more xamples really needed? If so, I can give you some examples of when erratas has been made where it's been a lot less needed than it is in this case. Also, I wonder, if you have 2 IF's on one minion, are you allowed to put a counter on both when playing _one_ card through an IF? Can you choose to put counters on just one, but also on both? Roger

>> > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through >> > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? >> >> Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says >that >> you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. > >Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever >employ an Infernal Familiar? Well, besides Ian, how about the case where a vampire with Infernal Pact gets an Infernal Familiar. If Heinrick gets an Infernal Pact for say, Temporis, and plays a Temporis card at inferior, this would trigger the Familiar, right? Halcyan 2

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020114224133...@mb-ba.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Ummm no I don't think so. IIRC Infernal Pact GRANTS the superior chosen, just like a skillcard does. Roger

> Also, I wonder, if you have 2 IF's on one minion, are you allowed to put a > counter on both when playing _one_ card through an IF? Can you choose to put > counters on just one, but also on both? I gather from LSJs post that when you play a card that you don't have a discipline for you choose through which mechanism you do it. This means that only one IF gets the counter and if it's, say Ian, you can choose his ability and get none.

>> Well, besides Ian, how about the case where a vampire with Infernal Pact >gets >> an Infernal Familiar. If Heinrick gets an Infernal Pact for say, Temporis, >and >> plays a Temporis card at inferior, this would trigger the Familiar, right? > > >Ummm no I don't think so. IIRC Infernal Pact GRANTS the superior chosen, >just like a skillcard does. Ummmm...no *I* don't think so. Infernal Pact [Sabbat] Cardtype: Master Clan: Tremere antitribu Cost: 1 pool Unique master. Put this card on a Tremere antitribu you control. Choose a Discipline. The vampire with this card can play cards that require that Discipline as though he or she has the superior version of that Discipline. Note the "The vampire with this card can play cards that require that Discipline AS THOUGH he or she has the superior version of that Discipline." Doesn't actually grant the discipline. Just lets the vampire play cards as if he or she had it. So if you gave Heinrick an Infernal PAct and chose Fortitude, he doesn't actually have Fortitude and would still get nailed if he got Kissed by Ra. Halcyan 2

"GreySeer" <e...@i.think.not> wrote in message news:u47jgnd...@news.supernews.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Not sure how you gathered that... here's what he said: > > > 2) What happens if Ian Forestal has an IF and plays an Obeah card through > > > his specialty, does the IF receive a counter? > > > > Strictly speaking yes, but I think there needs to be a ruling that says that > > you have to be using the infernal familiar's ability to get the counter. > > Yes. I don't see any pressing need for errata here - why would Ian ever employ an Infernal Familiar? > So, apparently, LSJ is saying that if Ian plays an Obeah card through his own special, he still gets a counter on IF, although I can't for the life of me figure out why. -Chris

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in news:6uQ08.19874$Tq.209138@rwcrnsc54: [ quoted text not captured ] Cardtext: The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a Discipline he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level of that Discipline; >>>>if he or she does so, place an investment counter on the Infernal Familiar.<<<< If the number of investment counters on the Familiar is greater than his controller's capacity, burn the controlling vampire. The 'if he or she does so' part means 'if he or she plays a card that requires a Discipline he or she does not have', not just 'if he or she uses the ability granted by this card'. Flux

> Ummmm...no *I* don't think so. > > Infernal Pact [Sabbat] > Cardtype: Master > Clan: Tremere antitribu > Cost: 1 pool > Unique master. > Put this card on a Tremere antitribu you control. Choose a Discipline. The > vampire with this card can play cards that require that Discipline as though he > or she has the superior version of that Discipline. > > > Note the "The vampire with this card can play cards that require that > Discipline AS THOUGH he or she has the superior version of that Discipline." > Doesn't actually grant the discipline. Just lets the vampire play cards as if > he or she had it. So if you gave Heinrick an Infernal PAct and chose Fortitude, > he doesn't actually have Fortitude and would still get nailed if he got Kissed > by Ra. Oh hmm I rememeber the card text wrong apparently :-) Roger

> Cardtext: > > The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a Discipline > he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level of that > Discipline; >>>>if he or she does so, place an investment counter on the > Infernal Familiar.<<<< If the number of investment counters on the > Familiar is greater than his controller's capacity, burn the controlling > vampire. > > > The 'if he or she does so' part means 'if he or she plays a card that > requires a Discipline he or she does not have', not just 'if he or she > uses the ability granted by this card'. LSJ could you please clarify what you meant? Roger

[ quoted text not captured ] Not any more than Flux (quoted above) did, no. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Flux" <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message news:Xns9197657165...@130.133.1.4... > "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in > news:6uQ08.19874$Tq.209138@rwcrnsc54: > > Cardtext: > > The vampire with this retainer can play a card that requires a Discipline > he or she does not have as if he or she had the basic level of that > Discipline; >>>>if he or she does so, place an investment counter on the > Infernal Familiar.<<<< If the number of investment counters on the > Familiar is greater than his controller's capacity, burn the controlling > vampire. > > > The 'if he or she does so' part means 'if he or she plays a card that > requires a Discipline he or she does not have', not just 'if he or she > uses the ability granted by this card'. > I understand where you're coming from, but that has never been the way things worked before. Frex... Escaped Mental Patient: Mortal with 1 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. As a (D) action, Escaped Mental Patient can enter combat with any minion controlled by another Methuselah. The Patient can strike for strength+1 aggravated damage. Burn him at the end of combat if he does so. So, if the Escaped Mental Patient is in combat after blocking a Dawn Op'd bleed, and he strikes with a Lucky Blow, then he is burned at the end of combat??? If A vampire plays Internal Recursion at <pre>, and then plays Catatonic Fear, will he untap (assuming he meets the requirements to untap provided by Internal Recursion? If Cailean has a Sniper Rifle and uses his special ability to set range, does he have to strike with the Sniper Rifle? (This one is not so ridiculous, and by itself wouldn't really illustrate my point, but the EMP example is the same thing, and it's pretty silly, no?) "If he does so" has always been taken to mean, "if he makes use of this capability", at least around here.

Chris Berger wrote: > I understand where you're coming from, but that has never been the way > things worked before. Frex... > > Escaped Mental Patient: Mortal with 1 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. As a (D) > action, Escaped Mental Patient can enter combat with any minion controlled > by another Methuselah. The Patient can strike for strength+1 aggravated > damage. Burn him at the end of combat if he does so. > > So, if the Escaped Mental Patient is in combat after blocking a Dawn Op'd > bleed, and he strikes with a Lucky Blow, then he is burned at the end of > combat??? Probably before then (since the opponent who has taken the time to play Dawn Op probably has some sort of damage-dealing strike to make), but yes. > If A vampire plays Internal Recursion at <pre>, and then plays Catatonic > Fear, will he untap (assuming he meets the requirements to untap provided by > Internal Recursion? Yes. > If Cailean has a Sniper Rifle and uses his special ability to set range, > does he have to strike with the Sniper Rifle? (This one is not so > ridiculous, and by itself wouldn't really illustrate my point, but the EMP > example is the same thing, and it's pretty silly, no?) If he blocked and sets range to long on the first round of the resulting combat, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C446B69...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Wow, no offense, but that's crazy. Luckily it doesn't have much practical effect on the game, or we might be in the midst of one of those million-post-long pointless arguments.

Chris Berger wrote: > Wow, no offense, but that's crazy. Luckily it doesn't have much practical > effect on the game, or we might be in the midst of one of those > million-post-long pointless arguments. One man's crazy is another man's card text. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C446B69...@white-wolf.com... > Chris Berger wrote: > > If A vampire plays Internal Recursion at <pre>, and then plays Catatonic > > Fear, will he untap (assuming he meets the requirements to untap provided by > > Internal Recursion? > > Yes. Sorry, i cannot understand this one... Iternal recursion has a card text that says "[pre] This blocking vampire can end combat as a strike during the resulting combat. If he or she does so and the acting minion is an ally or a younger vampire, this blocking vampire untaps." The "untap part" seems linked to ^ending combat with the S:ce provided by Internal recursion^ So what's up ? are we supposed to become rule lawyers and argue that, since we played another strike "combat ends" during that combat, our vamp can untap anyway due to the text from another card ? It sounds a little silly... Idea : Miller Delmardigan blocks a younger vamp. Plays Internal Recursion. At close range hit for 2, Blur, hit for 2 and 2. Press. hit for 2, blur, hit for 2, Riposte. And he untap after that !! because of card text on infernal recursion. quite strange ... =/ reyda

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C44AAC0...@white-wolf.com... > Chris Berger wrote: > > Wow, no offense, but that's crazy. Luckily it doesn't have much practical > > effect on the game, or we might be in the midst of one of those > > million-post-long pointless arguments. > > One man's crazy is another man's card text. :-) mmm... Not so long ago, you answered to my post like this : ----- (me) > I tap Jacko to play "Monomancy" on Gratiano. The combat begins. Gratiano > says "oh, well, i don't want to die after all". And chooses to end combat, > referring to the text on monomancy, thus losing permanently 1 bleed. Jacko (rulemonger) "... thus having the Monomancy card placed on him, resulting in his having -1 bleed." ----- Now if Jacko plays Monomancy on Anka Priestess of Thorns, and she plays Illusion of the kindred to lure Jacko, she is ending combat before range is chosen *thus getting -1 Bleed* ??? please clarify this =p reyda

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:a247u8$ihu$1...@neon.noos.net... > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > news:3C446B69...@white-wolf.com... > > > > If A vampire plays Internal Recursion at <pre>, and then plays Catatonic > > > Fear, will he untap (assuming he meets the requirements to untap > provided by > > > Internal Recursion? > > > > Yes. > > Sorry, i cannot understand this one... > Iternal recursion has a card text that says > > "[pre] This blocking vampire can end combat as a strike during the resulting > combat. If he or she does so and the acting minion is an ally or a younger > vampire, this blocking vampire untaps." > > The "untap part" seems linked to ^ending combat with the S:ce provided by > Internal recursion^ > That's the way I've taken cards like this to mean. And I'm sure that if you do it any other way at a tournament, you will have to get a judge to come over, because no one will believe you. I haven't been to many Jyhad tournaments *recently*, so no offense to current judges, but judges don't always have a perfect grasp of the rules (I've had judges who flat-out refused to look at the rulings and errata print-out that I had and simply said, "I know how it works - like this"), and since this is not entered on the rulings and errata page and probably won't be, you probably have a 50/50 chance of the judge deciding either way. If you intend to exploit this, I suggest you print out this topic and carry it with you. Otherwise, you're probably safe assuming that, in tournaments, it will work the way you state above.. > quite strange ... =/ > Indeed. Any chance of a reversal on this one, LSJ, or is this set in stone?

Reyda wrote: > Now if Jacko plays Monomancy on Anka Priestess of Thorns, and she plays > Illusion of the kindred to lure Jacko, she is ending combat before range is > chosen *thus getting -1 Bleed* ??? Yes (thus getting Monomancy, which supplies -1 bleed). [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris Berger wrote: > Indeed. Any chance of a reversal on this one, LSJ, or is this set in stone? It takes errata to "reverse" card text. I'll put it on the RT list. It doesn't seem to warrant errata, though, no matter how counterintuitive it is - it just doesn't come up that often. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C45DB8B...@white-wolf.com... > Chris Berger wrote: > > Indeed. Any chance of a reversal on this one, LSJ, or is this set in stone? > > It takes errata to "reverse" card text. > I'll put it on the RT list. > It doesn't seem to warrant errata, though, no matter how counterintuitive it > is - it just doesn't come up that often. > I really shouldn't, but I can't resist... One man's "card text" is another man's "blatantly incorrect reading of card text." Must... not... get into... another... hundred post... long.... argument...

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C45DB2A...@white-wolf.com... > Reyda wrote: > > Now if Jacko plays Monomancy on Anka Priestess of Thorns, and she plays > > Illusion of the kindred to lure Jacko, she is ending combat before range is > > chosen *thus getting -1 Bleed* ??? > > Yes (thus getting Monomancy, which supplies -1 bleed). And with Purchase Pact I assume...? ouch :/ Roger

"Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:a27kmd$utqic$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de... [ quoted text not captured ] Hmm ignore that, since it isn't the minion doing the combat ends...