Wake, Rewind Time, Cancel a Master, possible?

I found LSJ confirming that you can play a Wake With Evenings Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works? Thanks, ~Rehlow Rewind Time Reaction 2 blood [pre] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [tem] Cancel an action card as it is played (the acting minion is not tapped). [TEM] Usable by a ready, untapped vampire even though there is no action. Cancel a non-out-of-turn master card as it is played during any other Methuselah's master phase (no cost is paid). The Methuselah who played that card gains another master phase action. Wake with Evening's Freshness Reaction Do not replace until your next untap phase. Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded.

"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> wrote in message news:889816d9-f3aa-4e41...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com... >I found LSJ confirming that you can play a Wake With Evenings > Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an > action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can > do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also > know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks > for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like > to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works? You cannot play a reaction card during a master phase. You just can't - there's no rule in the rulebook to allow it. Turns out there's a reason I knew this one pretty good: http://groups.google.fr/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a41626cfaa609209 Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/ RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure... Fred

On Nov 30, 10:37 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > "Rehlow" <newsgr...@rehlow.com> wrote in messagenews:889816d9-f3aa-4e41...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com... > >I found LSJ confirming that you can play a Wake With Evenings > > Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an > > action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can > > do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also > > know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks > > for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like > > to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works? > > You cannot play a reaction card during a master phase. You just can't - > there's no rule in the rulebook to allow it. > > Turns out there's a reason I knew this one pretty good:http://groups.google.fr/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a4162... > > Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that > you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card > played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists > to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/ > RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action > card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct > Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure... > > Fred Thanks Fred. You don't have to worry about all that DI messy-ness due to Rewind Time's "non-out-of-turn master card." Maybe if a Rewind Time 2 comes along you'll have to worry about it. Later, ~Rehlow

"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> wrote in message news:55b0edc4-d602-4292...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com... On Nov 30, 10:37 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > > Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that > > you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card > > played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists > > to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/ > > RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action > > card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct > > Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure... > > Thanks Fred. You don't have to worry about all that DI messy-ness due > to Rewind Time's "non-out-of-turn master card." Maybe if a Rewind Time > 2 comes along you'll have to worry about it. Oh, yea. So it is. Card text - what a concept! Fred

Is this a issue with VtES rules in general? Reaction cards are only supposed to be played during actions. Perhaps it is inappropriate for Rewind Time to be able to respond to a Master card *as a reaction*. Imagine an action modifier that modifies a Master card, it'd be really weird.

[ quoted text not captured ] Reaction cards are only supposed to be played during actions - unless specific game text changes that. Rewind Time allows for that. Wake does not, which is why the combo doesn't work for the superior temporis effect. In the end it wasn't that hard to figure out, but I needed confirmation. Later, ~Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] On the other hand, wakes (wwef, otqv etc) don't have any text allowing them to be played after resolution either but in that case it's not judged as needed for some reason. I'm not sure I understand why they're playable "as needed" (without any text allowing it) in one instance and not in another, but I might have misunderstood something.

Henrik wrote: > On the other hand, wakes (wwef, otqv etc) don't have any text allowing > them to be played after resolution either but in that case it's not > judged as needed for some reason. > I'm not sure I understand why they're playable "as needed" (without > any text allowing it) in one instance and not in another, but I might > have misunderstood something. Many action modifiers and reactions may be played after the resolution of an action. Indeed some, such as Freak Drive or Cat's Guidance (at ani) can only be played during that window. By default, action modifiers and reactions are playable at any point during an action, though most are limited in timing by their effects. Why should any card have text allowing it to be played during the normal timing window for cards of its type? Jesse

[ quoted text not captured ] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_frm/thread/62decbb2f585c223#

henrik corrected me: > > Many action modifiers and reactions may be played after the resolution > > of an action. Indeed some, such as Freak Drive or Cat's Guidance (at > > ani) can only be played during that window. By default, action > > modifiers and reactions are playable at any point during an action, > > though most are limited in timing by their effects. Why should any > > card have text allowing it to be played during the normal timing > > window for cards of its type? > > > Jesse > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_f... I wasn't aware of that ruling, and I see what you mean now. I agree that there is now an inconsistency. In order to restore consistency, either wakes need additional card text, or LSJ needs to reverse his ruling. I'd much prefer to see the latter. Jesse

[ quoted text not captured ] Text space may have prevented further clarification? Look at Power of All. Card text says usable even if there is no action. Power of All Type: Reaction Requires: anarch Cost: 2 blood Requires a ready anarch. Tap this anarch and one other untapped ready anarch you control to cancel a library card as it is played. Usable even if there is no action. Not usable during your own turn.

On Dec 1, 3:53 pm, Obtenebration <obtenebrat...@obtenebration.org> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I wonder, given the fact that the card type already existed, why that wasn't a Reflex? Which is, as far as I can tell, what that is. - D.J.

[ quoted text not captured ] Potentially to add extra weight to the "not in your own turn" clause.

Meej wrote: >> Power of All >> Type: Reaction >> Requires: anarch >> Cost: 2 blood >> Requires a ready anarch. >> Tap this anarch and one other untapped ready anarch you control to >> cancel a library card as it is played. Usable even if there is no >> action. Not usable during your own turn. > > I wonder, given the fact that the card type already existed, why that > wasn't a Reflex? Which is, as far as I can tell, what that is. Reflexes only cancel cards played on the minion. [1.6.3]

[ quoted text not captured ] Aha. Thanks. (Still, that seems like it limited Reflexes more than necessary, when they could have been used to clear up situations like "how can you play a reaction when there's no action?"... but at least it's - as usual - consistent.) - D.J.