New Vamp Pictures

Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from the Camarilla set. This week: Leandro. http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/leandro.html I really like how he's updating the characters in his one style while maintaining the personality of the original. You can definitely tell it's Leandro. Last week's was some cool looking guy named Uncle George. http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/george.html (Also see Daliyah, Carna, Alejandro and Adelaide, if you haven't already) Enjoy! Any other artists doing previews on their website? And, since White Wolf has been introducing new vampires who are from the World of Darkness, has anybody heard of these new vamps? We could start the conjecturing already as to their clan, stats, etc. Neil

> Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > the Camarilla set. > This week: Leandro. I hope that's not the name for printing. Don't unique cards/vampires contest by name? Sorrow --- "This is my costume. I'm a homicidal maniac. They look just like everyone else." -- Wednesday Addams

[ quoted text not captured ] This seems to indicate that the 100 new vampires mentioned in the pressrelease are not all actually new ones, but reprints with new pictures... "The Camarilla Edition features over 300 cards available in booster assortments from which players will be able to get all the cards they need to play. The set includes 100 new vampires (all of which can be found in the boosters) and several new library cards." Good or bad? Btw, I don't fancy the Leandro pic, even if uncle george seemed cool... /Henrik Isaksson

"Sorrow" <jcb...@yahoo.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:2UaF8.764$W83.9...@newshog.newsread.com... > > Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > > the Camarilla set. > > This week: Leandro. > > I hope that's not the name for printing. Don't unique cards/vampires contest > by name? > Yes, actually if that's the case, Leandro would be the same vamp, just (maybe) with a different pic representing him. Ciao Emiliano, v:ek Prince of Rome > Sorrow > ---

"Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> ha scritto nel messaggio news:ac3e4s$mc0m2$1...@ID-135400.news.dfncis.de... > > Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > > the Camarilla set. > > > > This week: Leandro. > > > > http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/leandro.html > > > > I really like how he's updating the characters in his one style while > > maintaining the personality of the original. You can definitely tell > > it's Leandro. > > > > Last week's was some cool looking guy named Uncle George. > > > > http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/george.html > > > > (Also see Daliyah, Carna, Alejandro and Adelaide, if you haven't > > already) > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Any other artists doing previews on their website? > > > > And, since White Wolf has been introducing new vampires who are from > > the World of Darkness, has anybody heard of these new vamps? We could > > start the conjecturing already as to their clan, stats, etc. > > > > > This seems to indicate that the 100 new vampires mentioned in the > pressrelease are not all actually new ones, but reprints with new > pictures... Not necessarily: actually, if the WW plan is to "update" camarilla-v:tes to the 3rd edition, then Leadro could be the same vamp, but no longer malkavian justicar , "yelding" his former title to Maris Streck...who knows? Let's wait and see :) Emiliano, v.ekn prince of Rome <snip>

>Not necessarily: >actually, if the WW plan is to "update" camarilla-v:tes to the 3rd edition, >then Leadro could be the same vamp, but no longer malkavian justicar >, "yelding" his former title to Maris Streck...who knows? >Let's wait and see :) As the Malkavian *Inner Circle* Member, I doubt that *Leandro* would be yielding his position (which isn't necessarily unique) to *Justicar* Maris Streck? Maybe you're thinking of *Lucian* instead? Halcyan 2

Henrik Isaksson wrote: > This seems to indicate that the 100 new vampires mentioned in the > pressrelease are not all actually new ones, but reprints with new > pictures... <Rumor crushing mode> The set contains 100 new vampires. Reprints are not included in that number. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Neil Paananen" <paan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:ebc4deaa.02051...@posting.google.com... > Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > the Camarilla set. > > This week: Leandro. > > http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/leandro.html > > I really like how he's updating the characters in his one style while > maintaining the personality of the original. You can definitely tell > it's Leandro. Thus settling once and for all, I might add, the question of Leandro's gender. (He's a man, as I have always known, because Leandro is a male name. Or at least, would be if he were Italian. ;-) Now if only someone gets to do KoKo and prove once and for all that that is also a man (baby). ;-) (Hardly anyone besides Peter Bakija seems to agree with me on this.) (oh, btw, I also really like this "new pictures for old vamps" project and that he's more or less keeping how they looked before. even though in some cases I really liked the old pictures. eg Leandro, as I'm a big Drew Tucker fan. no flames necessary, I know some people hate Tucker.) Josh silly

>(oh, btw, I also really like this "new pictures for old >vamps" project and that he's more or less keeping how they >looked before. even though in some cases I really liked >the old pictures. eg Leandro, as I'm a big Drew Tucker >fan. no flames necessary, I know some people hate Tucker.) ::Turns on Improvised Flamethrower:: Sorry Josh! Yeah, overall I'm not that big of a fan of Drew Tucker. He does have a few decent pics. The blurriness was appropriate in Bureaucratic Overload and Clan Loyalty, and I liked his rendition of Lost in Crowds. But I don't like his vampires (Leandro, Victoria, Brazil, or Virgil). They just look like ugly, blurry blobs. At least Lucian, the two Ians, and Josef are decent... Halcyan 2

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020517145541...@mb-mr.aol.com... > ::Turns on Improvised Flamethrower:: > > Sorry Josh! Yeah, overall I'm not that big of a fan of Drew Tucker. He does > have a few decent pics. The blurriness was appropriate in Bureaucratic Overload > and Clan Loyalty, and I liked his rendition of Lost in Crowds. But I don't like > his vampires (Leandro, Victoria, Brazil, or Virgil). They just look like ugly, > blurry blobs. At least Lucian, the two Ians, and Josef are decent... Heh, fine, we can go there. :-) The blurriness is always appropriate. He's painting with watercolors. They're blurry. It's an impressionistic, imprecise kind of medium (at least the way he uses it). I like all the vampires you mention. Especially Virgil. (Now if only he were a better vampire... ;-) His Lost in Crowds is great, at least as good as the original (and I liked the original too). His Forgotten Labyrinth is also very nice. He can certainly sometimes do illustrations where it's not real obvious what the picture's of. (Week of Nightmares for example is kind of odd.) But the semi-abstractness is part of the charm. At least to me. :-) And Smiling Jack! How could anyone not love Smiling Jack? heh. Josh could i smiley any more?

>Heh, fine, we can go there. :-) =P >The blurriness is always appropriate. Not always! >He's painting with >watercolors. They're blurry. It's an impressionistic, >imprecise kind of medium (at least the way he uses it). Well, I agree that the blurriness is a result of the watercolor medium he uses, but then again, maybe he can try using some other mediums from time to time? At least some of the other artists try different types of medium (though often with mixed results). But at least it's a change... >I like all the vampires you mention. Especially Virgil. >(Now if only he were a better vampire... ;-) C'mon. Virgil isn't *that* bad. Um...he's the Master of Retainers. Stealing Tashas, Jackies, Winthrops, Revenants, and Ravens isn't that bad, is it? And in a pinch, he can gain extra blood by burning them. At least he has all the clan disciplines at superior... >His Lost in Crowds is great, at least as good as the >original (and I liked the original too). I wasn't a big fan of the original Lost in Crowds but I do have to say that Tucker's Lost in Crowds is definitely my favorite piece of work by him. >His Forgotten >Labyrinth is also very nice. Ugh. >He can certainly sometimes do illustrations where it's >not real obvious what the picture's of. (Week of Nightmares >for example is kind of odd.) But the semi-abstractness is >part of the charm. At least to me. :-) I like Week of Nightmares. Kind of cool looking. >And Smiling Jack! How could anyone not love Smiling Jack? >heh. And I do like the Smiling Jack picture. But I just don't think the blurriness is always appropriate. Smiling Jack and Goodnight were appropriate, as are group pictures as I mentioned earlier (Communal Haven Temple is another great one). But a blurry crypt card just doesn't do it for me. Especially, since blurry people are usually kinda ugly (unless of course they're using Celerity for the blurriness). Halcyan 2 Smile! =)

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:20020517141914...@mb-mr.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] yes....:-P sorry for my bad memory... ciao Emiliano

As a minor point of order, I'm an artist, and I used to do a lot of watercolors. You certainly can do a watercolor that is not blurry. It can be as precise as you want (though sometimes you have to use the reeeeaally little brushes...). The blurriness is due to Tucker's style. While the medium of watercolor lends itself to that style, it's not responsible for it. That being said, I prefer Tucker's Leandro. Though I do like the Uncle George picture. I'm surprised White Wolf doesn't have Meyer under a confidentiality agreement preventing him from showing his work before it's published. When I've hired illustrators for commercial advertising projects, we would have gutted them if they put the artwork we'd paid for on thier website before the project was put in circulation. I guess White Wolf's either cool with that or messed up this time (legal department must still be tired from suing the Camarilla). JSpektr

>I'm surprised White Wolf doesn't have Meyer under a >confidentiality agreement preventing him from showing his work before >it's published. When I've hired illustrators for commercial >advertising projects, we would have gutted them if they put the >artwork we'd paid for on thier website before the project was put in >circulation. I guess White Wolf's either cool with that or messed up >this time (legal department must still be tired from suing the >Camarilla). > Well, I think this sort of thing happens all the time. Similarly, before other expansions (i.e. Bloodlines) were released, I've heard that some artists have had samples of their work on display at gaming conventions. In particular I recall someone mentioning how he saw some artwork for the Gargoyle cards at a gaming convention (at the artist's personal booth) well before the release of Bloodlines... Halcyan 2

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ac3iqj$mgo82$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de... > > "Neil Paananen" <paan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:ebc4deaa.02051...@posting.google.com... > > Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > > the Camarilla set. > > > > This week: Leandro. > > > > http://kenmeyerjr.com/gothic/leandro.html > > > > I really like how he's updating the characters in his one style while > > maintaining the personality of the original. You can definitely tell > > it's Leandro. > > Thus settling once and for all, I might add, the question > of Leandro's gender. (He's a man, as I have always known, > because Leandro is a male name. Or at least, would be if > he were Italian. ;-) > > Now if only someone gets to do KoKo and prove once and for > all that that is also a man (baby). ;-) (Hardly anyone > besides Peter Bakija seems to agree with me on this.) James Hamblin will claim that Koko is "clearly a HE" until the day he (James) dies. But since James went and got a career, he doesn't much matter anymore. ;) > > Josh Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

"Neil Paananen" <paan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:ebc4deaa.02051...@posting.google.com... > Ken Meyer is updating his website every week with a new picture from > the Camarilla set. Just wondering : don't you prefer his previous work ? I'd rather have another Lizette or Bronwen than those new crappy close-up of anonymous vampires... What Meyer's new illustrations lack of mood and atmosphere, they don't make up with technique or color work. I don't want to be the "yesterday was better" moron, but who feels that Meyer's previous illustration were better ? reyda

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news: 3ce77ff4$0$8470$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ] me, definitely !!! Especialy Lizette =) Miller Delmardigan htt://sabbatinfrance.free.fr > > reyda > > >

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3CE54C52...@white-wolf.com>... > Henrik Isaksson wrote: > > This seems to indicate that the 100 new vampires mentioned in the > > pressrelease are not all actually new ones, but reprints with new > > pictures... > > <Rumor crushing mode> > > The set contains 100 new vampires. Reprints are not included in that > number. Also, I'm guessing that the precons don't count towards the "set" tally, eh? Since this is where we are likely to see the majority of reprints, especially vampires, we can start by looking there first. Interesting thoughts, though: 1) Leandro showing up suggests that the Inner Circle bods are going to be there in some form. This still fits in with the WoD setting (nobody knows who the IC are!), but we need not assume all the IC members keep their existing stats - Gwennie could get a special this time (+2 hand damage being a good idea). Also, it could be interesting to see if they "power-up" the Justicars (as is the trend with vampires lately). 2)I guess it is possible new art had to be done due to licencing arrangements for the original work... but Arika with a workover - it will be interesting to see if they give Gwendolyn a special in this edition, too. 3) So far we have seen 2 "reprints" from Dark Sovs via Ken's site. Will it be that all the reprints are going to be from that set and Ancient Hearts only or are we going to see VTES original vamps in the precons? If no VTES vamps are present, the precons are going to be very interesting indeed (quite literally Prince-Tastic, since nearly every Dark Sov cammie vampire has a title). DH

dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.02051...@posting.google.com>... > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3CE54C52...@white-wolf.com>... > > Henrik Isaksson wrote: > > > This seems to indicate that the 100 new vampires mentioned in the > > > pressrelease are not all actually new ones, but reprints with new > > > pictures... > > > > <Rumor crushing mode> > > > > The set contains 100 new vampires. Reprints are not included in that > > number. > > Also, I'm guessing that the precons don't count towards the "set" > tally, eh? Since this is where we are likely to see the majority of > reprints, especially vampires, we can start by looking there first. > > Interesting thoughts, though: > > 1) Leandro showing up suggests that the Inner Circle bods are going to > be there in some form. This still fits in with the WoD setting (nobody > knows who the IC are!), but we need not assume all the IC members keep > their existing stats - Gwennie could get a special this time (+2 hand > damage being a good idea). Also, it could be interesting to see if > they "power-up" the Justicars (as is the trend with vampires lately). Who says they're reprinting ALL of the Justicars. Some might get replaced with new ones, other Justicars, who still have their titles, might get 'reprinted' but have their stats changed (hence you'd contest.. interesting...). Like, say the new Leadro has superior in all inclan disciplines, and no crazy special, would contest with the old leandro we're used to. > 2)I guess it is possible new art had to be done due to licencing > arrangements for the original work... but Arika with a workover - it > will be interesting to see if they give Gwendolyn a special in this > edition, too. Not neccesarily means they're reprinting Gwen... most likely there'll be some new Brujah Inner Circle member. Of course they may leave inner circle members out entirely in this set (who said Leandro is still an IC) > 3) So far we have seen 2 "reprints" from Dark Sovs via Ken's site. > Will it be that all the reprints are going to be from that set and > Ancient Hearts only or are we going to see VTES original vamps in the > precons? If no VTES vamps are present, the precons are going to be > very interesting indeed (quite literally Prince-Tastic, since nearly > every Dark Sov cammie vampire has a title). Also crap tastic. the only princes I ever see used from that set are all Brujah. The rest generally suck. Ok, and the gangrel (which aren't in this set anyhow). It will be interesting to see how these new vampires (liek Dalihya or whatever) will compare to their old ones. Besides... why the hell would you put her in the Nosferatu preconstructed? ~SV

>1) Leandro showing up suggests that the Inner Circle bods are going to >be there in some form. This still fits in with the WoD setting (nobody >knows who the IC are!), but we need not assume all the IC members keep >their existing stats - Gwennie could get a special this time (+2 hand >damage being a good idea). Also, it could be interesting to see if >they "power-up" the Justicars (as is the trend with vampires lately). You know, Etrius and Harrod could really use useful specials as well. Yeah, maybe they *should* make new Justicars, if only to make them more appropriate cost-wise. Though I don't want to see canon ones. The canon Tremere Justicar is *such* a wuss - they should print Karl Schrekt as Tremere Justicar instead. Kick ass! =) >2)I guess it is possible new art had to be done due to licencing >arrangements for the original work... but Arika with a workover - it >will be interesting to see if they give Gwendolyn a special in this >edition, too. Yeah, I am curious about how all this art licensing works. Does anyone know anything about this? Halcyan 2

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020519234535...@mb-ct.aol.com... > You know, Etrius and Harrod could really use useful specials as well. Yeah, True. :) > maybe they *should* make new Justicars, if only to make them more appropriate > cost-wise. Though I don't want to see canon ones. The canon Tremere Justicar is > *such* a wuss - they should print Karl Schrekt as Tremere Justicar instead. > Kick ass! =) I dunno. I've got no problems paying 6 or 7 pool in order to be able to play ToGP. :) And he'd probably have THA at least, so it's all good. Xian

dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.02051...@posting.google.com>... > > > 1) Leandro showing up suggests that the Inner Circle bods are going to > > > be there in some form. This still fits in with the WoD setting (nobody > > > knows who the IC are!), but we need not assume all the IC members keep > > > their existing stats - Gwennie could get a special this time (+2 hand > > > damage being a good idea). Also, it could be interesting to see if > > > they "power-up" the Justicars (as is the trend with vampires lately). > > > > Who says they're reprinting ALL of the Justicars. Some might get > > replaced with new ones, other Justicars, who still have their titles, > > might get 'reprinted' but have their stats changed (hence you'd > > contest.. interesting...). > > No. I meant that the relative stats on the Justicars might get powered > up. I'm not expecting the old style Justicars to be reprinted. > > I have a theory. My theory is that most of these new vampires in this > set are going to be, stats wise, clones of vampires from the original > set, except tweaked for power reasons. e.g. Lucinde has the same stats > as Democritus, except maybe a better special and superior fortitude > (to match the new power curve that was brought in in Sabbat). Attack of the Clones? :) I'm hoping we see all new vampires, pretty much. Have 4 caps with all inclans for those clans that didn't have him... (um... I don't think there WASN'T one for all the camerilla...). We'll probably see more mid caps with weird out clan disciplines or weird specials. I'd like to see some more 3 caps with superior of one inclan skill. That's always fun. :) Seriously, I fear that things may start to get axed from our old set... maybe not, but I've feared this from the announcement of the Camerilla set... How long do you think White Wolf can keep putting out cards and not ban any old ones? Pretty soon we're going to have too many cards... What happens when every vampire's in clan disc. combination's been used? :) > I'm sure they've thought of a way around that - maybe errata the old > Leandro so that the new one is the ONLY one? Nah, I'm really thinking they're going to release these kids, give them the same name, but change their skills around... why erreta the old one? The old one was correct. That's what he was then. but now he's changed. So we either create both, let them contest one another, we ban the old one, or we erreta the old one (tantmount to banning the old one)... Which would you rather have? Or they'll just reprint Leandro with the same stats... > You obviously have only played one game of VTES in your life - with a > Brujah deck. Is it that obvious? > I'm going to do my "i'm right" dance now... > > *sound of shuffling feet and a song being hummed*. Alright, I'll just say that the folks in columbus here rarely include any of those princes, except the gangrel chicks, and the brujah princes... the rest (maybe nikolaus...) you'll almost never see. And francois sucks. > > It will be interesting to see how these new vampires (liek Dalihya or > > whatever) will compare to their old ones. Besides... why the hell > > would you put her in the Nosferatu preconstructed? > > Because she was in Dark Sovereigns and is a weenie nossie? A weenie nossie with ONE inclan disc, and an outclan disc. that's useless (for that set at least, assuming no protean cards are being included). ~SV

"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<acak9k$r1j$1...@wanadoo.fr>... > One of the main troubles for them is that by the time they get out (except > with a Zillah's Valley or Info Highway) they may have taken a bleed for 7 > already with a weenie dom bleed, for instance. A vote too, but that is > rarer. So here are a few card ideas to remedy that : > > HELP FROM ABOVE > Master out-of-turn > 1 pool > Only usable if you have no ready vampire and have no vampire below 7 in your > uncontrolled region. > Redirect a directed action to the target of your choice. > Only one Help from Above can be played in any turn. that last line is kind of unecessary, as you can only play one out-of-turn master no matter what... unless you mean that nobody else can play one until your turn comes around again -- that's not cool... > PREMATURE AWAKINING > Reaction > 1 blood > Only usable by an uncontrolled vampire with a capacity above 7. This vampire > can react as if controlled for the rest of this action. The reaction will be > resolved as normal, and then this vampire will go back to uncontrolled. If > this reacting vampire is put into torpor or if he is brought below 1 blood, > he will be considered as in torpor when he enters the game. This reacting > vampire can be burned in combat as a controlled vampire. aack... there are so many things wrong with this...! > Opinions ? well, okay, you asked... i'm going to venture a guess that the reason that no cards like this have ever been printed is that the potential to abuse them is too great... i can see a "vampireless" deck growing out of these sorts of things: jake washington, rafastio ghouls, antediluvian awakenings, anarch revolts, parthenons... and here's a vicious little twist on that: play ravnos, and never make more than 7 transfers to, say, gabrin... after premature awakening, he can draba, ignis fatuus, attempt to block, then either deflect or block and play... obedience...? no -- ILLUSIONS OF THE KINDRED...!!! now your hapless predator gets to fight a fake gabrin, played by a fake gabrin...! the all gabrin deck...!!! wow -- see how easy that was...? i already broke your cards, dude... hey, peal -- whaddaya think of that...? peace -- -- khs

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Now if only someone gets to do KoKo and prove once and for > all that that is also a man (baby). ;-) (Hardly anyone > besides Peter Bakija seems to agree with me on this.) Of course, Koko is a man. Here's a picture with him posing with Owen Hart. http://people.freenet.de/CKausM/OwenundKoko.jpg Regards, Noal

jsp...@sprynet.com (jspektr) wrote: > As a minor point of order, I'm an artist, and I used to do a lot of > watercolors. You certainly can do a watercolor that is not blurry. It > can be as precise as you want (though sometimes you have to use the > reeeeaally little brushes...). > > The blurriness is due to Tucker's style. While the medium of > watercolor lends itself to that style, it's not responsible for it. I'm also an artist. (FWIW, I prefer acrylic and never cared for working with watercolors much) Well...I used to be until I moved into an apartment and didn't have any room to set up. In any event, I'm looking forward to buying a house next year and setting up a studio area in the basement. But I digress. I really enjoy the various styles of the artists. I especially appreciate when a piece, outside of style, is not overly similar to other pieces. This is where Drew's watercolor paintings excel. Despite the number of pieces he's produced, each work has a uniqueness to it. Nothing irritates me more than a half dozen different paintings of different subjects that are substantially identical. (See the disproportionate, mass produced crap of Shy) Regards, Noal

> You obviously have only played one game of VTES in your life - with a > Brujah deck. > > Wilhelm Waldburg (Ventrue) > Queen Anne (Ventrue) > Gregor Anderson (Malk) > Nikolaus Vermeulen (Nossie) > Francois Villon (Toreador) > Klaus Van der Veken (Toreador) > Javier Montoya (Tremere) > Constanza Vinti (Brujah) > Donal O'Connor (Brujah) > Volker (Brujah) > > Gangrel aside (and Ingrid and Katarina are the backbone of any Gangrel > Royalty deck), we can see Francois Villon (the best Toreador), Gregor > (the backbone of any Malk Madness Network OOT rush deck, and possibly > the second most used Malkavian afer Gilbert Duane), Nikolaus (a 7 cap > Nossie Prince with for and a good special? I have yet to see a Nossie > deck WITHOUT him!) Queen Anne (Arika Jnr - more broken than the big > momma herself since she is a prince!), and the EuroBrujah. OK Javier > sucks and Klaus isn't great, but all the others get very regular > outings. > > I'm going to do my "i'm right" dance now... > > *sound of shuffling feet and a song being hummed*. > > > > It will be interesting to see how these new vampires (liek Dalihya or > > whatever) will compare to their old ones. Besides... why the hell > > would you put her in the Nosferatu preconstructed? > > Because she was in Dark Sovereigns and is a weenie nossie? > > DH I think that White wolf is just reprinting the DS vamps to get them into circulation. As you've pointed out above (start dancing) almost every Ds vamp is worth his or her weight in gold. It is my belief that these and probubly a select group of standard cam vamps are what you will see in the pre-cons (most likely with new art to give us who have been around for a while some reason to buy the pre-cons). If there are any differences in the card text from the origional version besides the new very sweet art work, it is my assumption that they will only be fixing misprints (such as Blyth) Just my 2 cents. Pc

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote: > Seriously, I fear that things may start to get axed from our old > set... maybe not, but I've feared this from the announcement of the > Camerilla set... How long do you think White Wolf can keep putting out > cards and not ban any old ones? Pretty soon we're going to have too > many cards... What happens when every vampire's in clan disc. > combination's been used? :) I had floated an idea regarding this in an earlier thread. At some point we're going to have an overload of weenies or vampires that have been rendered obsolte by newer vampires. But rather than banning the vampires, I think they'll say that vampires from the Jyhad and V:TES sets can't be mixed with the vampires from the upcoming Camarilla set in the same crypt. You can still play with them...just in different decks. Granted this is all idle speculation and nobody responded favorably to the idea and some people will likely blow a gasket (I promise not to be one of them) if they do something like this...but what other real choice will they have? The more I think about it, the more I believe that if WotC continues to produce new sets it will eventually become a necessity. Regards, Noal

> > HELP FROM ABOVE > > Master out-of-turn > > 1 pool > > Only usable if you have no ready vampire and have no vampire below 7 in your > > uncontrolled region. > > Redirect a directed action to the target of your choice. > > Only one Help from Above can be played in any turn. > > that last line is kind of unecessary, as you can only play one > out-of-turn master no matter what... unless you mean that nobody else > can play one until your turn comes around again -- that's not cool... You are right. > > PREMATURE AWAKINING > > Reaction > > 1 blood > > Only usable by an uncontrolled vampire with a capacity above 7. This vampire > > can react as if controlled for the rest of this action. The reaction will be > > resolved as normal, and then this vampire will go back to uncontrolled. If > > this reacting vampire is put into torpor or if he is brought below 1 blood, > > he will be considered as in torpor when he enters the game. This reacting > > vampire can be burned in combat as a controlled vampire. > > aack... there are so many things wrong with this...! > > > Opinions ? > > well, okay, you asked... Yes, I did !! :-) > i'm going to venture a guess that the reason that no cards like this > have ever been printed is that the potential to abuse them is too > great... i can see a "vampireless" deck growing out of these sorts of > things: jake washington, rafastio ghouls, antediluvian awakenings, > anarch revolts, parthenons... Well, vampireless decks can already be done, and it would be a nice twist... We could add a limit, like "only playable once in the game by each vampire", or whatever. > and here's a vicious little twist on that: play ravnos, and never > make more than 7 transfers to, say, gabrin... after premature > awakening, he can draba, ignis fatuus, attempt to block, then either > deflect or block and play... obedience...? no -- ILLUSIONS OF THE > KINDRED...!!! now your hapless predator gets to fight a fake gabrin, > played by a fake gabrin...! the all gabrin deck...!!! > > wow -- see how easy that was...? i already broke your cards, dude... No, you found an interesting twist ; not easy to play, either. Much less broken than the Soul Gem decks (Turbo Arika and co). Anyway I wasn't pretending to have found a perfect solution, and your comments are welcome. I'm just proposing ideas to help the biggies. Let the WW creators use whatever we suggest to find the adapted solutions. Cheers mate, Orpheus

dhar...@my-deja.com (Noal McDonald) wrote in message news:<bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com>... > vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote: > > Seriously, I fear that things may start to get axed from our old > > set... maybe not, but I've feared this from the announcement of the > > Camerilla set... How long do you think White Wolf can keep putting out > > cards and not ban any old ones? Pretty soon we're going to have too > > many cards... What happens when every vampire's in clan disc. > > combination's been used? :) > > I had floated an idea regarding this in an earlier thread. At some > point we're going to have an overload of weenies or vampires that have > been rendered obsolte by newer vampires. There's a large combination though, once you add in disadvantages and specials (I know, I've been working through them, see combinatorics problem from hell post). Eventually you'll be able to pick and choose the exact vampire you want... "Hmmm... lets see. I want to work an AUS obf deck with each vampire having titles... Quick check on Mongor of the 5000 vampires in the game now a days... uhuh, there's my 12 card crypt, all 5 caps, each from a different clan and no duplicates." Eventually something like that will become possible... I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing... > But rather than banning the vampires, I think they'll say that > vampires from the Jyhad and V:TES sets can't be mixed with the > vampires from the upcoming Camarilla set in the same crypt. You can > still play with them...just in different decks. Oh? I wonder who you heard that from... > Granted this is all idle speculation and nobody responded favorably to > the idea and some people will likely blow a gasket (I promise not to > be one of them) if they do something like this...but what other real > choice will they have? The more I think about it, the more I believe > that if WotC continues to produce new sets it will eventually become a > necessity. Yeah, see above... But how will that be determined? Can't have vampires from Jyhad and Vampire set included with those of Camerilla? Or do we include as the two opposing groups, anything before Sabat vs. everything Camerilla and beyond? Will we ban them from being in the same Crypt, or just in control on your side? What if I steal someone elses? It is a serious problem... And it could be crippling for some of the old players, for they'll most likely over react and leave... Hopefully WW will rope in new players with no problem, equal or greater to how many old timers they lose... Really though, I'm not interested in seeing something like my scenario above to happen (I think its bad enough with Raven and Camille! :))... I'm more interested in seeing vampires with odd discipline splits... Like replace the 8 cap ventrue prince emerson who has DOM FOR PRE pot (those are his skills aren't they?) with an 8 cap ventrue prince Blermerton with DOM FOR PRE obt... stuff like that. ~SV

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20020519234535...@mb-ct.aol.com>... > Yeah, I am curious about how all this art licensing works. Does anyone know > anything about this? Most artists sell limited rights to their works. This usually means that they must be paid again for any reprints of their work. Some grant "single use" licenses, meaning their work can be used only once, and if a company wants to do a reprint, they must negotiate a new deal with the artist. This could be the case with the new vampire art. Tucker may have only sold a single use of his art, and either asked too much for it to be used again, or simply refused. We must also consider that all the old art was sold to Wizards of the Coast, not White Wolf. WW may not have gotten the rights to all of the art transferred to them when they bought the rights to the VTES game. I'm not even sure what kind of deal was struck between WotC and WW. If they are just licensing the game system and applicable patents from WotC, then they may have had to renegotiate *all* of the artwork. Bottom line: there's all kinds of reasons they might have had to get new art, and could not use the old stuff. JSpektr - I suppose that's one of the other reasons mainstream commercial artists get paid so much more, they usually sell all rights to their work to the company. When Pepsi buys an illustration, they expect to be able to use it as many times and however they want, and they pay accordingly. Fantasy art is usually only used once, and the artist expects to make some money selling prints and the like at conventions.

dhar...@my-deja.com (Noal McDonald) wrote in message news:<bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com>... > jsp...@sprynet.com (jspektr) wrote: > > As a minor point of order, I'm an artist, and I used to do a lot of > > watercolors. You certainly can do a watercolor that is not blurry. It > > can be as precise as you want (though sometimes you have to use the > > reeeeaally little brushes...). > > > > The blurriness is due to Tucker's style. While the medium of > > watercolor lends itself to that style, it's not responsible for it. > > I'm also an artist. (FWIW, I prefer acrylic and never cared for > working with watercolors much) Well...I used to be until I moved into > an apartment and didn't have any room to set up. In any event, I'm > looking forward to buying a house next year and setting up a studio > area in the basement. I totally understand. I haven't done watercolor for years, partially due to expense, partially due to the mess (and I have a puppy and soon a child, and having tubes of highly toxic pigment around isn't such a good idea). I've also gone from graphic design to web programming, so most of my work is either pencil and ink or photoshop. > But I digress. I really enjoy the various styles of the artists. I > especially appreciate when a piece, outside of style, is not overly > similar to other pieces. This is where Drew's watercolor paintings > excel. Despite the number of pieces he's produced, each work has a > uniqueness to it. Nothing irritates me more than a half dozen > different paintings of different subjects that are substantially > identical. (See the disproportionate, mass produced crap of Shy) I have to agree. I can tell that Shy is capable of greater variety. My guess is that he might have been under deadline pressure, and White Wolf used him because he could crank out a lot of images quickly (which is just a problem with their choice of artists, a good portrait-style character painting should be doable in a single day by a good commercial artist, several in a day by a really good one). Perhaps if he was given more time, he could do better. Then again, maybe he's not being paid that much, and just decided to slough the job. JSpektr

orph...@wanadoo.fr (Orpheus) wrote in message news:<d3fe8309.02052...@posting.google.com>... > Well, vampireless decks can already be done, and it would be a nice > twist... yeah, but i mean they could be done, and actually become kind of abusive / broken... maybe if it said "and you control no minions..." > We could add a limit, like "only playable once in the game by each > vampire", or whatever. but then you have to keep track of which vampires have played it... more accounting... > > wow -- see how easy that was...? i already broke your cards, dude... > > No, you found an interesting twist ; not easy to play, either. Much > less broken than the Soul Gem decks (Turbo Arika and co). i dunno -- seem pretty easy to me... you spend the first half of the game in fake-gabrin mode, then bust out the real deal... and i was already mulling the gabrin-twister thing around [soul gem, pop-goes-the-ravnos...] but i wanted to keep that under my hat just in case lsj ever contracts dementia and releases this card...! > Anyway I wasn't pretending to have found a perfect solution, and your > comments are welcome. I'm just proposing ideas to help the biggies. > Let the WW creators use whatever we suggest to find the adapted > solutions. yeah, that's what i though -- i wasn't poking you with a sharp stick or anything -- just pointing out the kind of m:tg mentality that will take these kinds of new ideas and try and break them... i am not the only weasel-boy in the world, and some are a lot craftier than i -- if i can do this, someone else will do far, far worse... given that, as hard a time as i give lsj, it's a testament to his normally incredibly level-headed and far reaching ability to prevent that sort of thing that this game hasn't gone degenerate long before now... him, and a lot of good playtesters... peace -- -- khs

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote: > There's a large combination though, once you add in disadvantages and > specials (I know, I've been working through them, see combinatorics > problem from hell post). Eventually you'll be able to pick and choose > the exact vampire you want... > > Eventually something like that will become possible... I'm not sure if > that's a good or bad thing... It's hard to say. Like you, I'd certainly like to see some vampires that allow some mind bending combos like the one I floated out a while ago: Ashok Seth 6 cap Tremere pot ser DOM THA Primogen Ashok Seth and his controller may play cards as if he was a Follower of Set The not-quite-playable discipline combos this would help would be Dom/Pot/Tha, Dom/Ser and Ser/Tha. >> But rather than banning the vampires, I think they'll say that >> vampires from the Jyhad and V:TES sets can't be mixed with the >> vampires from the upcoming Camarilla set in the same crypt. You can >> still play with them...just in different decks. > > Oh? I wonder who you heard that from... Didn't hear it from anyone. I just gave thought to what they would do if they had an issue where game balance was put at risk due to the number of vampires. Banning older sets outright would certainly incense the community. So I starting musing over what other possible scenarios could handle the situation. That was the best one I came up with. The other alternative, of course, is to throttle down the number of newer vampires. Of course, that raises the number of library cards, which may cause it's own problems as you then have to expand the game while avoiding an arms race. It's a tough line to toe when you have stagnation on one side and an unbalanced game on the other. > But how will that be determined? Can't have vampires from Jyhad and > Vampire set included with those of Camerilla? Or do we include as the > two opposing groups, anything before Sabat vs. everything Camerilla > and beyond? I don't see the need for dragging DS and AH camarilla vamps into it. They're too few in number and generally not small enough to cause a problem. And as we saw, there is artwork being created for a couple of the DS vampires. The thing is that the Independent and Sabbat vampires needed help. However, Camarilla vampires may very well sell the game better. How do you balance marketing with game balance? Magic never handled the balance well and thus generated some ill-will as a result. > It is a serious problem... And it could be crippling for some of the > old players, for they'll most likely over react and leave... I doubt that's going to happen. Like me, they'll get melodrmatic and raise hell, but they'll keep playng the game. They have too much invested already. > Hopefully WW will rope in new players with no problem, equal or greater > to how many old timers they lose... While I'm not really concerned about losing old-timers, I am concerned about White Wolf's ability to get new players. Ever since Hasbro bought out WotC and entrenched its mindset (slave to shareholder, screw the customer) into the business, WotC stores can't stock shelves with V:TES. They purchase product on a regional, not local, basis now and V:TES doesn't sell well enough to be ordered on that kind of scale. Never mind that it's not their product anymore. As always, smaller shops are still responsive. Given the economy, the nature of the game, etc., I don't think it is possible for the game to sell on that kind of level. Regards, Noal

"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<acak9k$r1j$1...@wanadoo.fr>... > Opinions ? Here's one: ATOM SMASHER Master x pool Choose a vampire you control of capacity X (where X is above 7). Remove the chosen vampire from the game. Put up to X skill cards from your hand, library, or ash heap into play; each skill card represents a capacity 1 vampire of the same clan/sect as the chosen vampire, with the basic level of its discipline card. ;-)

evilp...@yahoo.com (evil_poot_cat) wrote in message news:<cf597231.0205...@posting.google.com>... > ATOM SMASHER > Master > x pool > Choose a vampire you control of capacity X (where X is above 7). > Remove the chosen vampire from the game. Put up to X skill cards from > your hand, library, or ash heap into play; each skill card represents > a capacity 1 vampire of the same clan/sect as the chosen vampire, with > the basic level of its discipline card. you mean i can minion tap my queen anne for all her blood, then turn her into 10 one cap dom weenie ventrue...?! where have you been all my life...?! -- khs

"Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEcharter.net> wrote in message news:ueesb3m...@corp.supernews.com... > > "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:ac3iqj$mgo82$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de... > > Now if only someone gets to do KoKo and prove once and for > > all that that is also a man (baby). ;-) (Hardly anyone > > besides Peter Bakija seems to agree with me on this.) > > James Hamblin will claim that Koko is "clearly a HE" until the day he (James) > dies. But since James went and got a career, he doesn't much matter anymore. > ;) Heh. Indeed. Me, Peter, and James all agree on this point for a reason, you know. :-) I'm not sure why everyone else can't see the light. Except Noal, who has very kindly shown me the precedent of Koko-named-males in the world of wrestling. hehehe. Josh look out, it's koko! the kokinator! with superior kokostry!

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Me, Peter, and James all agree on this point for a reason, > you know. :-) I'm not sure why everyone else can't see > the light. Except Noal, who has very kindly shown me the > precedent of Koko-named-males in the world of wrestling. > hehehe. Koko is so totally a he. If his name were Coco, then maybe he'd be a she, but as his name is Koko, he is completely a he. Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "Can I be blind too?" -Xander

>> Me, Peter, and James all agree on this point for a reason, >> you know. :-) I'm not sure why everyone else can't see >> the light. Except Noal, who has very kindly shown me the >> precedent of Koko-named-males in the world of wrestling. >> hehehe. > >Koko is so totally a he. If his name were Coco, then maybe he'd be a she, >but as his name is Koko, he is completely a he. But wasn't Koko the Gorilla a *she*? =P Halcyan 2