Justicar Retribution Q's

Justicar Retribution: Counts the bleed amount that each vampire would have when attempting to bleed his prey. [RTR 19980623] 1) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Ventrue in play and passes Justicar Retribution. Does Constanza burn? According to the ruling, yes, but I just wanted confirmation. 2) I have Kephamos in play with a Laptop computer. My prey has Matthias in play. A Justicar Retribution passes. Does Kephamos burn? 3) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Arika in play. I pass Justicar Retribution. Can I burn Arika first and keep Constanza alive? (Probably not) 4) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My grand-prey has Arika. My prey has Temptation over Arika with 11+ counters. My prey passes a Justicar Retribution. Assuming 1) is true, is there a timing window available for my prey to burn the Temptation counters, take control of Arika, and burn Constanza as well? Thanks! Jeff

On 17 May 2003 08:56:55 -0700, jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Kuta) wrote: >Justicar Retribution: Counts the bleed amount that each vampire would >have when attempting to bleed his prey. [RTR 19980623] >1) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Ventrue in play and >passes Justicar Retribution. Does Constanza burn? According to the >ruling, yes, but I just wanted confirmation. Confirmed. >2) I have Kephamos in play with a Laptop computer. My prey has >Matthias in play. A Justicar Retribution passes. Does Kephamos burn? No. >3) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Arika in play. I pass >Justicar Retribution. Can I burn Arika first and keep Constanza alive? >(Probably not) No. All vampires chosen to be burned are identified when the terms are set, and this is before any of them are burned. >4) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My grand-prey has Arika. My prey >has Temptation over Arika with 11+ counters. My prey passes a Justicar >Retribution. Assuming 1) is true, is there a timing window available >for my prey to burn the Temptation counters, take control of Arika, >and burn Constanza as well? Yes, that timing window is before the terms of the referendum are announced. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

The Lasombra wrote: > On 17 May 2003 08:56:55 -0700, jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Kuta)wrote: >>Justicar Retribution: Counts the bleed amount that each vampire would >>have when attempting to bleed his prey. [RTR 19980623] >>1) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Ventrue in play and >>passes Justicar Retribution. Does Constanza burn? According to the >>ruling, yes, but I just wanted confirmation. > Confirmed. Correct. >>2) I have Kephamos in play with a Laptop computer. My prey has >>Matthias in play. A Justicar Retribution passes. Does Kephamos burn? > > No. ... unless Mattias is in torpor, correct. >>3) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Arika in play. I pass >>Justicar Retribution. Can I burn Arika first and keep Constanza alive? >>(Probably not) > No. > All vampires chosen to be burned are identified when the terms are > set, and this is before any of them are burned. Correct. >>4) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My grand-prey has Arika. My prey >>has Temptation over Arika with 11+ counters. My prey passes a Justicar >>Retribution. Assuming 1) is true, is there a timing window available >>for my prey to burn the Temptation counters, take control of Arika, >>and burn Constanza as well? > > Yes, that timing window is before the terms of the referendum are > announced. Well "passes" the referendum implies that the terms have already been set and the polling is concluded. While it would be more reasonable for the prey to grab Arika before the polling (for the extra vote shift), it could be done at the end of polling and before the effect of the successful referendum is applied. Similarly, you could use Blood Tears of Kephram after a Corruption's Purge "passes" to give your Follower of Set with two blood two extra blood to burn (assuming sufficient capacity, of course) to keep him out of torpor (by keeping him from dropping to zero blood). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Mon, 19 May 2003 08:05:40 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >The Lasombra wrote: >>Some other guy asked: [snip] >>>3) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Arika in play. I pass >>>Justicar Retribution. Can I burn Arika first and keep Constanza alive? >>>(Probably not) >> No. >> All vampires chosen to be burned are identified when the terms are >> set, and this is before any of them are burned. > >Correct. > >>>4) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My grand-prey has Arika. My prey >>>has Temptation over Arika with 11+ counters. My prey passes a Justicar >>>Retribution. Assuming 1) is true, is there a timing window available >>>for my prey to burn the Temptation counters, take control of Arika, >>>and burn Constanza as well? >> >> Yes, that timing window is before the terms of the referendum are >> announced. > >Well "passes" the referendum implies that the terms have already been >set and the polling is concluded. > >While it would be more reasonable for the prey to grab Arika before >the polling (for the extra vote shift), it could be done at the end >of polling and before the effect of the successful referendum is >applied. but if it is done at the end of polling, then The Lasombra's answer to 3) implies Constanza won't burn, only Arika would, as Constanza wouldn't have been 'chosen' by the 'set terms' part at the start of the referendum. is that right? salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

salem wrote: > On Mon, 19 May 2003 08:05:40 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> > scrawled: > >>The Lasombra wrote: >> >>>Some other guy asked: >> > [snip] > >>>>3) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Arika in play. I pass >>>>Justicar Retribution. Can I burn Arika first and keep Constanza alive? >>>>(Probably not) >>> >>>No. >>>All vampires chosen to be burned are identified when the terms are >>>set, and this is before any of them are burned. >> >>Correct. Oops. Incorrect. See below. >> >>>>4) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My grand-prey has Arika. My prey >>>>has Temptation over Arika with 11+ counters. My prey passes a Justicar >>>>Retribution. Assuming 1) is true, is there a timing window available >>>>for my prey to burn the Temptation counters, take control of Arika, >>>>and burn Constanza as well? >>> >>>Yes, that timing window is before the terms of the referendum are >>>announced. >> >>Well "passes" the referendum implies that the terms have already been >>set and the polling is concluded. >> >>While it would be more reasonable for the prey to grab Arika before >>the polling (for the extra vote shift), it could be done at the end >>of polling and before the effect of the successful referendum is >>applied. > > > but if it is done at the end of polling, then The Lasombra's answer to > 3) implies Constanza won't burn, only Arika would, as Constanza > wouldn't have been 'chosen' by the 'set terms' part at the start of > the referendum. > is that right? Sorry. I read Lasombra's reply too hastily. There are no real "terms" to choose in Justicar Retribution. Like Domain Challenge, the effect is applied by examining the would-be targets at the time of referendum resolution. [ quoted text not captured ]