LSJ: FoW / Day op Clarification (was Re: LSJ and friends: Qs )

Hi all, In a recent game, we had the following situation occur: Meth A has an empty Brachah (5 cap with CEL, PRE, for) with Anathema on her. On Meth A's turn, she hunts successfully and Meth A uses her to play a FOW and Day Op. Does Brachah burn or go to torpor empty? I have included the relevant card text as well as a ruling from November 2002. If the ruling from November 2002 still stands, then she would have burned (I think). If the ruling is different, can someone please clarify what the new ruling is? Thanks Mari Portland, OR Portla...@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- Relevant Card Text Force of Will Fortitude Cost: 1 Blood Only usable by a tapped vampire. (f)(D) Bleed with +1 bleed. This vampire takes 2 points of aggravated damage (damage not preventable), even if the action is blocked. Damage occurs after the action or combat is resolved. (F)As above, but the (D) bleed is at +2 bleed and the acting vampire takes 1 point of aggravated damage (damage not preventable). Day Operation Fortitude Cost: 1 Blood Only usable as the action is announced. (f)Vampires cannot block this action. The acting vampire goes to torpor when the action resolves. (F)As above, but usable in response to an attempt to block. ------------------------------------ From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) Subject: Re: LSJ and friends: Qs Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Date: 2002-11-15 07:48:16 PST Joshua Duffin wrote: > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > news:3DD4EF5C...@white-wolf.com... > > GP41 wrote: > > > > > 1) Will a vamp with 1 blood that plays Force of Will and then pays 1 > > > blood to play Earth Control go to torpor, even if the Force of Will > > > fizzle due to lack of blood? > > > > Yes. Card text indicates that the damage is not part of the successful > > resolution of the action. > > Doesn't the Force of Will/Change of Target interaction suggest the > opposite? It used to. It doesn't any more (post-CE). > I thought that ruling was based on the interpretation > that the action has to end by being blocked or resolving for the > damage to take place, eg canceling the action doesn't do it. When the action is canceled, sure. If you DI the FoW, for instance, no damage will be taken. The fizzled action wasn't canceled in the example, however. > It seems like a fizzling action also shouldn't do it, unless that's > considered "the action resolving", just for no effect? Right. It doesn't actually "fizzle" until it gets to resolution. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Mari wrote: > Meth A has an empty Brachah (5 cap with CEL, PRE, for) with Anathema > on her. On Meth A's turn, she hunts successfully and Meth A uses her > to play a FOW and Day Op. > > Does Brachah burn or go to torpor empty? Burn. She pays 1 for the Day Operation, leaving her empty. The Force of Will is resolved. It fizzles since she cannot pay the cost. Then she takes 2 agg from the Force of Will. It cannot be healed, so the first point wounds her. It will burn a wounded vampire, so the second point burns her (since she has no blood to burn to prevent her destruction). Anathema and has no bearing here, since there's no combat. The controller could apply Day Op's post-action-resolution effect and FoW's post-action-resolution effect in either order, though. So Brachah could have been wounded first by Day Operation so that she would burn with the first point of agg from FoW rather than waiting for the second. > I have included the relevant card text as well as a ruling from > November 2002. If the ruling from November 2002 still stands, then > she would have burned (I think). If the ruling is different, can > someone please clarify what the new ruling is? Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]