rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Kindred Most Wanted preview from the White Wolf Winter Quarterly 2005

73 messages from 29 participants · 09 December 2004 – 14 December 2004
original thread on Google Groups

The Lasombra

http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=115 VTES: Kindred Most Wanted Wanted, an expansion with four pre-constructed starter decks and boosters, is available in February. Vampire: The Eternal Struggle Kindred Most Wanted Starters: $9.99 each; $79.92 for display Boosters: $2.99 each; $107.64 for display (See Inside Front Cover and page 18 for stock #s and ISBN) More Than Damned VTES brings out the nastiest of vampires in Kindred Most Wanted by L. Scott Johnson, Vampire: The Eternal Struggle developer The Red List. Anathema. The vampires so ruthless and vicious that even elder vampires consider them monsters, and so cunning that they elude capture even when they’re marked for destruction by those elder vampires. These monsters enter the spotlight in Kindred Kindred Most Wanted Wanted, the latest expansion for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle from White Wolf. From the guile of Kemintiri, who looted Camarilla coffers in the guise of the Ventrue justicar, to the unbridled savagery of Enkidu, the most powerful predator the world has known, they’re ready to enter your decks in a big way. In all, 13 of the most feared creatures in the World of Darkness make their way to the Eternal Struggle. Some of the original 13 have been replaced with new names. And, of course, there are cards that allow Methuselahs to add the names of their rivals’ minions to the list during play. The set also features a few of the more renowned alastors, the vampires who spend their unlives tracking down the Kindred Most Wanted. Of course, the anathema are fair game for any vampire, no special license or commission is necessary. That’s the primary purpose of the Red List — to engage all vampires in the hunt and destruction of the few singled out for the list. As fugitives, Red-List vampires constantly face the threat of combat in the game. Fortunately, they have the skills to survive such assaults. Many are simply fearsome enough that their would-be attackers have to spend some effort equipping with weapons and building up other resources before attacking, and not every deck will field vampires up to that task. Others are less fearsome, but also more wily and difficult to catch. The rewards for bagging a Red-List vampire are great, however. Havens, hunting grounds, wealth, training in new Disciplines, progeny and even sanctioned diablerie are for the asking to one who takes down an anathema. In the card game, this is accomplished through a mechanism similar to the rules for diablerizing vampires of greater capacity. Instead of Discipline cards, though, there are now Trophy cards to place on the triumphant vampire. The set also places a special emphasis on the independent vampires. It introduces many new group-four vampires for the four main independent clans, the Assamites, the Followers of Set, the Giovanni and the Ravnos, along with several new clan-specific library cards for each. And the set features the first starter deck for a Bloodlines clan, the Baali starter, as one of the four pre-constructed starter decks. (The other three focus on the Gangrel antitribu, the alastors and the vampires of the Red List, respectively.) By Design The following is a preview of selected cards from the set. Note that these designs aren’t finalized yet (playtesting is ongoing at the time of this writing), so the final forms of these cards are not guaranteed to match this text. But the flavor should still come through. Designing the set was an interesting challenge. In particular, finding the interplay of power necessary to preserve balance while still capturing the feel of the Red List and the dread those vampires inspire was tough to get right. We ended up with a special rule for Red-List minions which allows anyone to try to bring them down in combat. That rule helps weigh the Red-List vampires down and offset the increased Disciplines, strengths and special abilities designed into them. Without that rule, some of the Red-List vampires would seem very powerful indeed, quite out of line with their predecessors. For example, Valeius, a Tremere possessed by his former dark master, Varro: Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. Valerius is enough of a combat threat to make most trophy-seekers look elsewhere, especially as the first non-Baali capable of playing all of the Daimoinon cards. With the Gehenna release, we’ve already seen the introduction of the Alastor card, which is useful for getting trophy-hunters properly outfitted for the fight. The Kindred Most Wanted set adds a couple of faces to the position. One of those faces is that of Echo, the Nosferatu alastor: Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. The justicars — and, indeed, sometimes entire clans — offer trophies, or boons, to those who bring down their enemies on the Red List. One possible reward is to be given claim to prime hunting grounds in the city. Trophy: Hunting Ground Action Modifier/Reaction Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each turn. The goodies for the independent clans include new ways of getting additional vampires into play, similar to what the Camarilla and Sabbat have with The Third Tradition: Progeny and Creation Rites. Rather than being sect-specific (and requiring a title), these are merely clan-specific (and some require a certain minimum capacity). Take Web of Knives Recruit for example: Web of Knives Recruit Action Assamite 1 pool+1 stealth action. Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in his or her uncontrolled region at a time. The recruit is not active as quickly as a vampire brought in play with The Embrace or the other cards of that kind, but the resulting vampire is much stronger and less vulnerable. The other cards of this sort in Kindred Most Wanted are Proxy Kissed, Tumnimos and The Waters of Duat. Each functions a little differently, however. As usual, there are cards for many Disciplines and deck types, including some new three-ways and other cards for the anarchs, some new allies, like Ossian, some new combat cards, like Disengage and Haymaker, new guns, vehicles and other equipment, and a even a few new events. Warghoulator The following VTES deck, created by Stéphane Lavrut (currently the game’s #1 ranked player), has been used to devastating effect, notably winning the 2002 Austrian Championship. Stéphane’s Notes: The idea here is to get Warghouls out as quickly as possible in order to control the table. Note also that this is a slim deck, but to improve it, I’d recommend losing another two cards instead of adding any more. Crypt (12 Cards): Horatio (x4) Lolita Houston (x4) Nedal, The Careless The Rose (x2) Sandra White Library (62 cards): Blood Doll (x4) Breath of the Dragon (x2) Changeling (x6) Delaying Tactics (x2) Direct Intervention (x4) Ghoul Escort (x4) Jack (x5) Library Hunting Ground Memories of Mortality (x4) Mr. Winthrop Plasmic Form (x5) Revenant (x4) Trap (x7) Vagabond Mystique (x2) War Ghoul (x11)

isaphrael

That's hot! I can't wait for that new tremere, hooray for more necromancing tremere! -KB, Prince of Harrisburg

CthuluKitty

This all sounds pretty cool to me. It sounds like the new cards will really be encouraging combat, which I think is great. Currently combat is viewed (to a large extent incorrectly) as the weakest strategy in the game, and it's also the most dynamic and interactive part of the rules. I'm looking forward to the set. Hopefully LSJ will keep power escalation under control, and so far the previews look pretty balanced. There's some really awesome stuff on the list, but the drawbacks are pretty substantial. > Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. Given that he has nec and attrocious combat abilities this guy looks like he'd do well teamed up with Hector Trelane. Ex Nihilo, Weather Control, Trap, Theft of Vitae seems like it could really mean (you can't gain blood off ToV with EN, but you can burn your opponent's blood, since you're not doing any damage). And then of course you can run Walk of Flame and maybe Wind Dance (which Valerius can convert to Arms of the Abyss) to dish out agg. when you're not not under EN. Thaum combat is fun if you can get away with it. > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. Too bad he'll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. I'm not so sure this guy will see too much play, since his disciplines are a little weird...we'll have to see what else comes out in G4. > Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during > combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion > controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. > During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood > bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each > turn. It's great if you can get it. I have a feeling though that unless Red List vampires are really really common, Trophy cards won't see much use. I'm rather skeptical. > Web of Knives Recruit > Action Assamite > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap > phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three > counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in > his or her uncontrolled region at a time. It's neat. I wonder how good it is. The payoff is definitely worth it if you can afford the wait, which in the current metagame is unlikely. Combat tends to drag things out though, so if the game does swing that way these guys could be cool. Looking forward to more... CthuluKitty

CthuluKitty

This all sounds pretty cool to me. It sounds like the new cards will really be encouraging combat, which I think is great. Currently combat is viewed (to a large extent incorrectly) as the weakest strategy in the game, and it's also the most dynamic and interactive part of the rules. I'm looking forward to the set. Hopefully LSJ will keep power escalation under control, and so far the previews look pretty balanced. There's some really awesome stuff on the list, but the drawbacks are pretty substantial. > Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. Given that he has nec and attrocious combat abilities this guy looks like he'd do well teamed up with Hector Trelane. Ex Nihilo, Weather Control, Trap, Theft of Vitae seems like it could really mean (you can't gain blood off ToV with EN, but you can burn your opponent's blood, since you're not doing any damage). And then of course you can run Walk of Flame and maybe Wind Dance (which Valerius can convert to Arms of the Abyss) to dish out agg. when you're not not under EN. Thaum combat is fun if you can get away with it. > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. Too bad he'll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. I'm not so sure this guy will see too much play, since his disciplines are a little weird...we'll have to see what else comes out in G4. > Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during > combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion > controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. > During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood > bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each > turn. It's great if you can get it. I have a feeling though that unless Red List vampires are really really common, Trophy cards won't see much use. I'm rather skeptical. > Web of Knives Recruit > Action Assamite > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap > phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three > counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in > his or her uncontrolled region at a time. It's neat. I wonder how good it is. The payoff is definitely worth it [ quoted text not captured ]

J

> > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. > > Too bad he'll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. I'm not so sure this > guy will see too much play, since his disciplines are a little > weird...we'll have to see what else comes out in G4. Great in a Shadow Feint deck. Minion Tap him. Rush. Signpost, Increased, Shadow Feint, Grapple, Pushing the limit, Taste of Vitae it all back before they've had a chance to say "What the?" And he can rush at stealth. And he can muster intercept. And he can flick bleeds. Seems like a cool vamp to me. > > Web of Knives Recruit > > Action Assamite > > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap > > phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three > > counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in > > his or her uncontrolled region at a time. > > It's neat. I wonder how good it is. The payoff is definitely worth it > if you can afford the wait, which in the current metagame is unlikely. > Combat tends to drag things out though, so if the game does swing that > way these guys could be cool. Notice how it only "becomes" a 3 cap vampire. Which means that you can't Enchant Kindred/Govern to it, even though it is in the uncontrolled region. You can't even Khabar: Loyalty to it either. -- J -- "Fry crack corn, and I don't care, Leela crack corn, I still don't care, Bender crack corn and he is great; Take that you stupid corn!" grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com to email me

lehrbuch

[CthuluKitty] > Too bad [Echo]'ll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. > I'm not so sure this guy will see too much play, > since his disciplines are a little weird...we'll > have to see what else comes out in G4. CEL POT is pretty common, and always worthwhile. > I have a feeling though that unless Red List > vampires are really really common, Trophy > cards won't see much use. I'm rather > skeptical. With any luck there'll be a way to put opponent's vampires onto the red list. * lehrbuch

J

> > I have a feeling though that unless Red List > > vampires are really really common, Trophy > > cards won't see much use. I'm rather > > skeptical. > > With any luck there'll be a way to put opponent's vampires onto the red > list. >From the original post: "And, of course, there are cards that allow Methuselahs to add the names of their rivals' minions to the list during play." -- J -- [ quoted text not captured ]

J

For some reason, my message didn't get posted - well, the msg got posted but was blank.... c'mon google - wtf? Anyway, from the original post. [ quoted text not captured ]

lehrbuch

[J] > "And, of course, there are cards that > allow Methuselahs to add the names of > their rivals' minions to the list > during play." Oh. That's good then. * lehrbuch

J

[ quoted text not captured ] Reminds me of yoda in http://alia.customer.netspace.net.au/sw3.htm On my list Gilbert Duane go, if bleed with him one more time you do. [ quoted text not captured ]

emmits...@hotmail.com

J wrote: > > > Web of Knives Recruit > > > Action Assamite > > > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > > > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your > > > untap phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has > > > three counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > > > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > > > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit > > > in his or her uncontrolled region at a time. > > > > Notice how it only "becomes" a 3 cap vampire. Which means that you > can't Enchant Kindred/Govern to it, even though it is in the > uncontrolled region. You can't even Khabar: Loyalty to it either. Since it isn't a vampire, you can't even make transfers to it. You do, however, bring it into play during your untap phase rather than your influence phase. As a side note, I really hope Web of Knives Recruit, Proxy Kiss, Waters of Duat etc. are commons in the new set. I suspect they'll fit into many, many Independent decks, and many decks will want to play with a whole lot of them.

vol...@yahoo.com

"As usual, there are cards for many Disciplines and deck types, including some new three-ways and other cards for the anarchs," Much obliged, thanks. I very much look forward to seeing the possibilities there. And I for one will never complain about odd discipline spreads... Eric Simon Prince of Chicago erstwhile Anarch Newsletter Writer

Aramis

> As a side note, I really hope Web of Knives Recruit, Proxy Kiss, Waters > of Duat etc. are commons in the new set. I suspect they'll fit into > many, many Independent decks, and many decks will want to play with a > whole lot of them. The Web of Knives Recruit sounds cool and all, but notice that it doesn't have the "non-unique, does not contest" wording that Embrace/Progeny/Creation Rites vampires do, so you can only ever have 1 in play at a time. Still, the little guy might finally be a reason to dust off Tajdid. 1 pool for a weenie with some oomph and if he dies you just pop another one into the oven... Aramis *looking past the 10th anniversary set already, pretty shinies*

sinaath

> Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. How does this one work with Wind Dance (as a 1st strike, and as 2nd)? IMO: Minion can has only 1 additional strike, so WD as 1st strike doesn't allow to make another strike (just Dodge&Dodge) WD as 2nd strike provides just 1 Dodge (no 3rd strike: Dodge) sinaath

Sator Ukko

In article <slrncrg5kv...@sirppi.helsinki.fi>, Sator Ukko wrote: > In article <0refr0tk9hrrqiaro...@4ax.com>, The Lasombra wrote: >> Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) >> Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA >> Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires >> Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to >> make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. >> >> Valerius is enough of a combat threat to make most trophy-seekers look >> elsewhere, especially as the first non-Baali capable of playing all of >> the Daimoinon cards. At last my Ex-nihilo+Contagion+Toughts Bertrayed+Trap deck has one other viable crypt choice in addition to Huizi+NEC or GotGB. -- Sator Ukko

Sator Ukko

In article <0refr0tk9hrrqiaro...@4ax.com>, The Lasombra wrote: > Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. > > Valerius is enough of a combat threat to make most trophy-seekers look > elsewhere, especially as the first non-Baali capable of playing all of > the Daimoinon cards. > At last my Ex-nihilo+Contagion+B+Trap deck has one other viable crypt [ quoted text not captured ]

geo...@for.auth.gr

The Lasombra wrote: > > Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. > Infernal Tremere!!! cool. I knew that these witches were not to be trusted... > > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. > This nossy will keep good company to Theo, if you ask me. > Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during > combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion > controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. > During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood > bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each > turn. > WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean, think this... You play Anathema to a minion, you put him to the red list, you kill him, you get his capacity in pool and you also gain some boons... terrific... Maybe there is a rule that only one boon can be gained by slaying a red list minion ? or maybe it should be ? I know it is to early for us to judge, i just say my opinion... > Web of Knives Recruit > Action Assamite > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap > phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three > counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in > his or her uncontrolled region at a time. > WOW!!!! again, let me check if it is the 1st of April... no it is not... So, thank you LSJ... A nice Assamite card, that cannot be over-exploited and it is nice if you ask me... Now, if we could also have a card that would made playing the fidai easier, then we would truly have happy Christmas... > > As usual, there are cards for many Disciplines and deck types, > including some new three-ways and other cards for the anarchs, some > new allies, like Ossian, some new combat cards, like Disengage and > Haymaker, new guns, vehicles and other equipment, and a even a few new > events. > Disengage!!!!! Could i dare to expect a discipliness combat ends ?????? If yes, then i hope there is a serious drawback (but not like mumify :P) Or maybe Disengage is something like a 2-press to end card ? :P George

geo...@for.auth.gr

CthuluKitty wrote: > > > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. > > Too bad he'll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. I'm not so sure this > guy will see too much play, since his disciplines are a little > weird...we'll have to see what else comes out in G4. > he will mix well with G3 dominative Brujahs... > > Trophy: Hunting Ground > > Action Modifier/Reaction > > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during > > combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion > > controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. > > During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood > > bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each > > turn. > > It's great if you can get it. I have a feeling though that unless Red > List vampires are really really common, Trophy cards won't see much > use. I'm rather skeptical. > I believe that there will be a way to make a vampire a Red list one, so you'll just have to vote Anathema, put the vampire to the Red list and then kick him until he is dead... Have you noticed that these trophy cards are also boon cards ? So, it seems that Blood Trade will be famous... George

geo...@for.auth.gr

hahaha, think again... i am betting my Warghouls that they will be R. (i hope i am wrong though) George

geo...@for.auth.gr

you can play windance at basic tha as your first strike (just dodge) and then play a theft of vitae as a free additional strike... not bad at all... George

salem

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:51:40 -0500, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> scrawled: >http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=115 does anyone have a direct link to the pdf? the .php script is causing my browser coniptions. thanks, salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

sinaath

> you can play windance at basic tha as your first strike (just dodge) > and then play a theft of vitae as a free additional strike... not bad > at all... Not bad, but with Shotgun Ritual this guy is awesome! Drain Essence + Walk of Flame should be enough for anyone sinaath

geo...@for.auth.gr

"By Design The following is a preview of selected cards from the set. Note that these designs aren't finalized yet (playtesting is ongoing at the time of this writing), so the final forms of these cards are not guaranteed to match this text. But the flavor should still come through." "The goodies for the independent clans include new ways of getting additional vampires into play, similar to what the Camarilla and Sabbat have with The Third Tradition: Progeny and Creation Rites." In my opinion the above text gives the impression that "The Web of Knives Recruit" and the rest Ebrace/Progeny types of cards are meant to help indys bring more vampires in play, so it is silly if they are going to be unique. Remember Call the Great Beast, which is an action card that becomes a clanless independent UNIQUE vampire, so as it appears the WoKR text is not final and they can easily add a sentence that will say that WoKR vampires do not contest each other. The rules say that "All vampires cards represent unique vampires...". But what about an action card that becomes a vampire ? e.g. if "Call the Great Beast"'s text did not say that the vampire produced by is unique, then what ? Would it be considered a vampire card, by the time it entered play as a clanless ind. vampire or not ? What is a vampire card ? A Crypt card only or any card that represents a vampire ? Anyway, i believe that LSJ can clear this out for us... George

emmits...@hotmail.com

Aramis wrote: > The Web of Knives Recruit sounds cool and all, but notice that it > doesn't have the "non-unique, does not contest" wording that > Embrace/Progeny/Creation Rites vampires do, so you can only ever have 1 > in play at a time. Huh. On the other hand, it doesn't say Unique like the Great Beast and Abomination. Clarification would be nice. Notice it doesn't say Blood Cursed either. Nice.

LSJ

<emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1102600510....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] If the actual text needs clarifying/ruling, then that will be provided. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

David Cherryholmes

emmits...@hotmail.com wrote: > As a side note, I really hope Web of Knives Recruit, Proxy Kiss, Waters > of Duat etc. are commons in the new set. I suspect they'll fit into > many, many Independent decks, and many decks will want to play with a > whole lot of them. When the average game only lasts 12 turns, why would I want to fill up my deck with WoKR? It seems like a solid card to me, but something that I'd likely toss just a few of into many Assamite decks, much like Gregory Winter or Ghouls of Plaza M. -- David Cherryholmes

geo...@for.auth.gr

fine, but can you please let us know which cards are considered vampire cards ? Only the crypt ones or any card that represents a vampire (like actions that become vampires). e.g. if the Great beast's text didn't say that it is unique, then what ? George

geo...@for.auth.gr

Blood Curse is tied to Assamite Clan, so no need to say Blood Cursed, It becomes an Assamite and thus becomes Blood Cursed. George

John Flournoy

geo...@for.auth.gr wrote: > CthuluKitty wrote: > > > > > Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) > > > Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT > > > Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion. > > > > Too bad he'll be G4, as he'd be great with Beast. I'm not so sure > this > > guy will see too much play, since his disciplines are a little > > weird...we'll have to see what else comes out in G4. > > > he will mix well with G3 dominative Brujahs... He also mixes pretty well with Kurt Densch, as both have aus/cel/obf/pot. > I believe that there will be a way to make a vampire a Red list one, so > you'll just have to vote Anathema, put the vampire to the Red list and > then kick him until he is dead... I would _not_ expect the actual vote card Anathema to do this, as the preview talks about how the set includes cards to put people on the Red List and as far as we know there aren't reprints in the new set outside the starters. (And Anathema, despite its title, already has a defined mechanic.) > George -John Flournoy

RavATw...@vampirethemasquerade.com

Very cool. I like to hunt Anathema vampires. (and the new cards preview are AWESOME!) Thanks to Jeff for the link and to the WW for good new cards. I hope the set will be as good as the preview... :> RavA

Screaming Vermillian

"Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. " What? How lame is THIS? Ok... I get a 7 cap with 11 points worth of stuff, and the disability of a Red List (maybe one point), and the disability of Infernal (two points, at least). All said, I get eight points. Normal for a seven cap. But really, as we all know, Infernal's bane doesn't make up for the boon infernal guys usually get... So unless they make more stuff for infernal guys (Inferal Boon: Combat: Requires an infernal vampire. Play after this minion torps an opposing minion in combat. You gain two pool.) I see this guy sucking... "Echo (Nosferatu, 7 capacity) Disciplines: aus dom CEL OBF POT Camarilla: Echo gets +1 strength in combat with a Red-List minion." That's what I like seeing. 8.5 points on a 7 cap. The dom will come in handy for some decks. But I don't think the +1 strength is really going to help out, unless this guy were totally prepared. Perhaps [Echo inflicts +1 damage when playing strikes that deal damage against Red-List minions.] would make him better.. "Trophy: Hunting Ground Action Modifier/Reaction Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each turn." What corner case PoS is this? Besides, most combat decks run taste of vitae, and THAT'S sufficient to get the benefits of this card...Now unless there was some way to give a crappy Redlist vampire to another methuselah, this card is going to SUCK SUCK SUCK all the way to my wallpaper box. Even in a draft or Redlist themed environment. TOO CORNERCASE!!! "Web of Knives Recruit Action Assamite 1 pool+1 stealth action. Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in his or her uncontrolled region at a time." Uh... whoa... kinda' slow. And, um... well. Potence? Interesting... Is it Unique? Man... shouldn't even cost a pool. For one pool I want a pay back sometime soon. four turns for a combat geared minion seems a bit much... "Warghoulator" Oh... I was actually afraid this was a new card there for a second. Thank Caine! ~SV

John Flournoy

CthuluKitty wrote: > > Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. > > Given that he has nec and attrocious combat abilities this guy looks > like he'd do well teamed up with Hector Trelane. Ex Nihilo, Weather > Control, Trap, Theft of Vitae seems like it could really mean (you > can't gain blood off ToV with EN, but you can burn your opponent's > blood, since you're not doing any damage). And then of course you can > run Walk of Flame and maybe Wind Dance (which Valerius can convert to > Arms of the Abyss) to dish out agg. when you're not not under EN. > Thaum combat is fun if you can get away with it. THA/DAI combat can also get pretty nasty: Concordance/Burst of Sunlight is pretty unpleasant, and Valerius can do Theft-then-Burst for 2 steal+2 agg - potentially using the thefted blood to pay for the 2 normal he'll take from the Burst. Heck, even twin Blood Fury after Concordance isn't bad: 8 damage unpreventable by fortitude for 2 blood, plus you convert agg damage to normal, is nothing to sneeze at. Also, many Thaum decks like it when their opponent is Condemnation: Languid'ed and cannot press to end, ever. > CthuluKitty -John Flournoy

Screaming Vermillian

No I don't think that new Nosferatu will be playng with Theo... at least not in any official tournaments (grouping, man, grouping).

Smiling Tom

"Screaming Vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje news:1102616001.3...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > "Valerius Maior (Tremere, 7 capacity) > Disciplines: nec pre AUS DAI DOM THA > Camarilla. Red List: If Valerius makes a strike that requires > Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, usable only to > make a strike that requires Thaumaturgy. Infernal. " > > What? How lame is THIS? Ok... I get a 7 cap with 11 points worth of > stuff, and the disability of a Red List (maybe one point), and the > disability of Infernal (two points, at least). All said, I get eight > points. Normal for a seven cap. But really, as we all know, Infernal's > bane doesn't make up for the boon infernal guys usually get... So > unless they make more stuff for infernal guys (Inferal Boon: Combat: > Requires an infernal vampire. Play after this minion torps an opposing > minion in combat. You gain two pool.) I see this guy sucking... > I don't see it this way. Not at all. Against other infernal vamps till, he is able to an easy access to untap: rutor's hand. Along with some goodnesses granted by both nec and dai: concordance-exnihilo combo. Not to say he might equip/use all tremere toys: arcane to pay for his infernalism, ankara citadel to play almost for free all nec/tha/dai cards... Someone has already mentioned contagion+trap+thoughts betrayed/telepathic tracking... a 2/3 card combo to gain permanent control of a ready vamp controlled by another methuselah. [snipped] > > "Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during > combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion > controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. > During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood > bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each > turn." > > What corner case PoS is this? Besides, most combat decks run taste of > vitae, and THAT'S sufficient to get the benefits of this card...Now > unless there was some way to give a crappy Redlist vampire to another > methuselah, this card is going to SUCK SUCK SUCK all the way to my > wallpaper box. Even in a draft or Redlist themed environment. TOO > CORNERCASE!!! In the original post, it's said that there might be a way to turn other's vampires into red lists: "And, of course, there are cards that allow Methuselahs to add the names of their rivals' minions to the list during play." So I guess this rewards will be packed in redlist hunters' specialized decks. > > "Web of Knives Recruit > Action Assamite > 1 pool+1 stealth action. > Put this card in play in your uncontrolled region. During your untap > phase, move one counter from the bank to this card. When it has three > counters, move it to your ready region. It becomes a 3 capacity > independent Assamite with Celerity, Obfuscate, Potence, Quietus and > three blood. A Methuselah may have only one Web of Knives Recruit in > his or her uncontrolled region at a time." > > Uh... whoa... kinda' slow. And, um... well. Potence? Interesting... Is > it Unique? Man... shouldn't even cost a pool. For one pool I want a pay > back sometime soon. four turns for a combat geared minion seems a bit > much... > Agreed here

X_Ze...@cox-internet.com

> I don't see it this way. Not at all. Against other infernal vamps till, he > is able to an easy access to untap: rutor's hand. Along with some goodnesses > granted by both nec and dai: concordance-exnihilo combo. Not to say he might > equip/use all tremere toys: arcane to pay for his infernalism, ankara > citadel to play almost for free all nec/tha/dai cards... Someone has already > mentioned contagion+trap+thoughts betrayed/telepathic tracking... a 2/3 card > combo to gain permanent control of a ready vamp controlled by another > methuselah. I think he is cool, but this combo does not work. See text of Contagion. Contagion Type: Action Requires: Daimoinon +1 stealth action. Unique. [dai] Requires an Infernal vampire. Put this card on the acting vampire. During each other Methuselah's untap phase, he or she burns 1 pool if this vampire is ready. [DAI] As [dai] above, and ONCE per combat, this vampire can put a corruption counter on the opposing minion as a strike. If the number of your corruption counters on the minion equals or exceeds the capacity of that vampire or the cost of that ally, you may burn all of your corruption counters on that minion to gain control of him or her after strike resolution (ending combat). Rarity: BL:R1 I am very excited about this vampire. He is going to be awesome. Thoughts Betrayed/Weather Control/Theft of Vitae/Conflagration burn any vampire without fortitude with 3 blood on round one. Fun, Fun. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the swamp

David Cherryholmes

X_Ze...@cox-internet.com wrote: > I am very excited about this vampire. He is going to be awesome. He's a Gear Up monster, if you can stomach going anarch. -- David Cherryholmes

Rogar

I think it was Smiling Tom <tma...@almadrava.net>, who once wrote: > Someone has already mentioned contagion+trap+thoughts betrayed/telepathic > tracking... a 2/3 card combo to gain permanent control of a ready vamp > controlled by another methuselah. I guess no one mentioned that Contagion is once per combat? You'd need multiple Psyches to pull it off. Still lacking in cards to give it a try though. :P Rogar

John Flournoy

X_Zea...@cox-internet.com wrote: > I am very excited about this vampire. He is going to be awesome. > > Thoughts Betrayed/Weather Control/Theft of Vitae/Conflagration burn any > vampire without fortitude with 3 blood on round one. Not quite: Conflagration, being a DAI strike, can't be played on Valerius' granted additional strike. (Thaum strikes only). You can still set up some gross combos with him, though. Plus, his discipline spread lines up nicely with Barbaro Luchese, for what that's worth.. > Fun, Fun. > Comments Welcome, > Norman S. Brown, Jr > XZealot > Archon of the swamp -John Flournoy

Smiling Tom

<X_Ze...@cox-internet.com> escribió en el mensaje news:1102618440.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > > I don't see it this way. Not at all. Against other infernal vamps > till, he > > is able to an easy access to untap: rutor's hand. Along with some > goodnesses > > granted by both nec and dai: concordance-exnihilo combo. Not to say > he might > > equip/use all tremere toys: arcane to pay for his infernalism, ankara > > citadel to play almost for free all nec/tha/dai cards... Someone has > already > > mentioned contagion+trap+thoughts betrayed/telepathic tracking... a > 2/3 card > > combo to gain permanent control of a ready vamp controlled by another > > methuselah. > > I think he is cool, but this combo does not work. See text of > Contagion. > Ouch... This happens when you trade all your infernal stuff with damnans: no card at bay to read it properly... Anyway,

Smiling Tom

> THA/DAI combat can also get pretty nasty: Concordance/Burst of Sunlight > is pretty unpleasant, and Valerius can do Theft-then-Burst for 2 > steal+2 agg - potentially using the thefted blood to pay for the 2 > normal he'll take from the Burst. > > Heck, even twin Blood Fury after Concordance isn't bad: 8 damage > unpreventable by fortitude for 2 blood, plus you convert agg damage to > normal, is nothing to sneeze at. > > Also, many Thaum decks like it when their opponent is Condemnation: > Languid'ed and cannot press to end, ever. > > > CthuluKitty > > -John Flournoy > Keep in mind he is still Tremere. So Ankara citadel grants it for free.

LSJ

"Kevin Walsh" <hja...@redbrick.dcu.ie> wrote in message news:1102623148.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > >The rewards for bagging a Red-List vampire are great, however. Havens, > >hunting grounds, wealth, training in new Disciplines, progeny and even > >sanctioned diablerie are for the asking to one who takes down an > >anathema. In the card game, this is accomplished through a mechanism > >similar to the rules for diablerizing vampires of greater capacity. > >Instead of Discipline cards, though, there are now Trophy cards to > >place on the triumphant vampire. > > How similar is similar? Do I get to fetch a Trophy from my Ash Heap or > deck when I kill a Red List minion? Or are there other ways of fetching > such cards? The exact rules will be included in the set. [ quoted text not captured ]

Kevin Walsh

>The rewards for bagging a Red-List vampire are great, however. Havens, >hunting grounds, wealth, training in new Disciplines, progeny and even >sanctioned diablerie are for the asking to one who takes down an >anathema. In the card game, this is accomplished through a mechanism >similar to the rules for diablerizing vampires of greater capacity. >Instead of Discipline cards, though, there are now Trophy cards to >place on the triumphant vampire. How similar is similar? Do I get to fetch a Trophy from my Ash Heap or deck when I kill a Red List minion? Or are there other ways of fetching such cards? Incidentally, Web of Knives Recruit looks pretty cool for Anarch Assamite decks. Cheap obf qui is surprisingly difficult to get, and he can Smash & Grab if you somehow manage to fit that in.

X_Ze...@cox-internet.com

John Flournoy wrote: > X_Zea...@cox-internet.com wrote: > > I am very excited about this vampire. He is going to be awesome. > > > > Thoughts Betrayed/Weather Control/Theft of Vitae/Conflagration burn > any > > vampire without fortitude with 3 blood on round one. > > Not quite: Conflagration, being a DAI strike, can't be played on > Valerius' granted additional strike. (Thaum strikes only). > Meeps! I should have double checked that. Okay so the nasty is Concordance/Thoughts Betrayed/Weather Control/Theft of Vitae/Burst of Sunlight to burn any vampire with less than 3 blood on them. Roger, Roger Clearance, Clarance What's the Vector, Victor Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Daneel

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:51:40 -0500, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > The following is a preview of selected cards from the set. Note that > these designs aren t finalized yet (playtesting is ongoing at the time > of this writing), so the final forms of these cards are not guaranteed > to match this text. But the flavor should still come through. I must confess, I'm not extatic about an in-playtest review. I'm glad we got some bits and pieces, but I don't think the playtesters should be pushed in any way. I know it probably has to do with the quarterly, but maybe I could have waited for an actual preview on the site like with Bloodlines, Camarilla, etc. -- Bye, Daneel

CthuluKitty

> CEL POT is pretty common, and always worthwhile. Sure. But it's very easy to get cheap vampires with some combination of cel and pot, and they usually come with a third discipline in common, like presence or even fortitude. For a CEL POT deck I can't yet see any reason to leave G2 behind, what with Jimmy Dunn and...Jimmy Dunn. I'm not saying this is a worthless vampire. I'm just not seeing any real crypt he'd fit well in given presently available vampires. I could easily be proven wrong. As for Shadow Fient, it's my experience that it's simply not that great a card. People on these boards never stop complaining about first strike, and the dodge hosing effect already comes on Immortal Grapple, to much better effect. > > > I have a feeling though that unless Red List > > vampires are really really common, Trophy > > cards won't see much use. I'm rather > > skeptical. > > With any luck there'll be a way to put opponent's vampires onto the red > list. Right. If that's easily doable, then these could be really good cards. CK

John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, I would guess that with roughly 2 months to the announced release date of February, that playtesting is _probably_ already over and done with. I'd expect the set was at least in the 'send final text to the printers, review proofs, etc' stages this close to the release date. And that the blurbs given to the quarterly were given out by LSJ months ago (so that the quarterly could also go through the not-instant steps of editing and proofing for its own publication.) Anyone out there who has playtested a previous set no longer covered by NDA restrictions want to let us know what the lead-time was for your effort? > Bye, > > Daneel -John Flournoy

geo...@for.auth.gr

you misunderstood me, what i meant was this: Vote Anathema, so the vampire can easily be burned by simply being reduced to 0 blood. Use the new card that puts vampires into the Red List to make the Anathema-vampire a red list one. Enter Combat with the Red list vampire (from what i can understand they are going to put something like an innate "haven uncovered" to all red list vamps) burn him by hiting him hard, gain his capacity in pool, play your new fancy "boons" and always have an Emergency Preparations handy, to burn that nasty Blood Trade that can easily destroy all the boons you have gathered by red-list ass-kicking... In a few words, i wanted to point out that Anathema can work very well with the new card that will put vamps to the Red List and with the new boon cards that can be played when burning a RL vamp. George

geo...@for.auth.gr

PLEASE STOP pointing out how good this vampire is... Remember that KMW has not been finalized, yet. So, displaying the high potential of this vamp may lead to changing him and making him weaker... Please lets all point out how weak this vampire is and stop mentioning how good he is until he is released ;) George

Joshua Duffin

"John Flournoy" <carn...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1102632169.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Daneel wrote: > > I must confess, I'm not extatic about an in-playtest review. I'm glad > > we got some bits and pieces, but I don't think the playtesters should > > be pushed in any way. I know it probably has to do with the > quarterly, > > but maybe I could have waited for an actual preview on the site like > > with Bloodlines, Camarilla, etc. > > Yeah, I would guess that with roughly 2 months to the announced release > date of February, that playtesting is _probably_ already over and done > with. I'd expect the set was at least in the 'send final text to the > printers, review proofs, etc' stages this close to the release date. > > And that the blurbs given to the quarterly were given out by LSJ months > ago (so that the quarterly could also go through the not-instant steps > of editing and proofing for its own publication.) > > Anyone out there who has playtested a previous set no longer covered by > NDA restrictions want to let us know what the lead-time was for your > effort? Yeah, for Anarchs, the very last stuff we saw was about January 1st, 2003. The set was released May 19, 2003. So that's about five months ahead of release that playtesting was pretty entirely over. I'd guess that if that schedule still holds, playtesting for Kindred Most Wanted has probably been finished for a couple months already. (Though it's possible that Scott or proofreaders have been cleaning up wordings until later than that). So I doubt there's any danger of playtesters being influenced by newsgroup discussion at this point. (or that, despite the impressive coincidence, the recently-suggested desire for Independent-clan vampire-creation-cards beyond The Embrace had anything to do with the fact that such cards are going to be in KMW. :-) Josh reporting under foia

Smiling Tom

<geo...@for.auth.gr> escribió en el mensaje news:1102634293....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I see that someone caught my real intention... I'll explain: Damnans swept ALL cards involving dai and infernal in our hometown and it's inmediate surroundings, even overseas. Unless the baali starter packs a nice amount of such cards (which I don't think so, since most are rares from bloodlines) it'll be almost impossible for me to build most decks around this man. FYI, in the last infernal storyline, he was able to reach the final round (and almost win) with a baali deck build around anthelios-path of evil revelations because NO ONE ELSE has such path here. BAN VALERIUS MAJOR :-P

emmits...@hotmail.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, I'm assuming WoKR is not unique. If Gregory Winter and the Ghouls were not Unique, I imagine we'd see decks with more than one or two of each in them. Marijiva Thuggee decks seem to do well. That would allow decks that attempted something like this: Turn 1: 3-cap Turn 2: 3-cap, 3-cap Turn 3: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap Turn 4: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR Turn 5: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR Turn 6: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR That's not as fearsome as the Crypt Machine, but it's pretty nice. Unlike many breeding actions, WoKR as shown doesn't need you to spend slots on master cards, doesn't take blood off your minions, and gives you the vampire full. I'd estimate you'd need 18 WoKR cards in a 60-card deck to get that kind of card flow with the assistance of Dreams of the Sphinx, so I think it should be Common, like Shambling Hordes, especially since most Assamite decks could stand to toss a few WOKR in anyway. 18 in 60 is pretty extreme, of course. But 9 in 90 seems quite practical and beneficial, and again, that means a common card. Certainly there's more reasons to want WoKR to be common than there was for, say, Siphon or Root of Vitality. (Although since I just found a use for including multiple Descent into Darkness in a deck, perhaps I'm premature in saying those two aren't necessary in large numbers.) Also, if the Ravnos spawning card is at all practical to use with Week of Nightmares, it really should be a common, and I expect that the four spawning cards will have the same rarity. But it's both too early and too late to get into a heavy discussion of the set's rarity, since a) we don't really know what the card's final form is and b) the rarity's probably already fixed. All I can say for sure is that my spell checker keeps insisting on changing "WoKR" to "work".

LSJ

Daneel wrote: > but maybe I could have waited for an actual preview on the site like > with Bloodlines, Camarilla, etc. You'll get that, of course. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

The Lasombra

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:39:51 +1100, salem <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:51:40 -0500, The Lasombra ><TheLa...@hotmail.com> scrawled: >>http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=115 >does anyone have a direct link to the pdf? the .php script is causing >my browser coniptions. http://download.white-wolf.com/download/download.php?file_id=340 or here: http://www.white-wolf.com/downloads.php?category_id=18 where it is the first link. It is 9.18 MB, so it will take some time to download. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

Aramis

> emmits...@hotmail.com wrote: > Well, I'm assuming WoKR is not unique. If Gregory Winter and the Ghouls > were not Unique, I imagine we'd see decks with more than one or two of > each in them. Marijiva Thuggee decks seem to do well. > > That would allow decks that attempted something like this: > > Turn 1: 3-cap > Turn 2: 3-cap, 3-cap > Turn 3: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap > Turn 4: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR > Turn 5: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR > Turn 6: 3-cap, 3-cap, 2-cap, 4-cap, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, WoKR, > WoKR Maybe I'm not understanding what the chart is supposed to show, but even if WoKR is not unique, which I tend to doubt, you can only ever have 1 in the uncontrolled region at a time (unless you're trying to show how it would work without that text). This means a total of 3-4 WoKR in a game because there are only so many untap phases in the game. Aramis

emmits...@hotmail.com

Aramis wrote: > Maybe I'm not understanding what the chart is supposed to show, but > even if WoKR is not unique, which I tend to doubt, you can only ever > have 1 in the uncontrolled region at a time (unless you're trying to > show how it would work without that text). This means a total of 3-4 > WoKR in a game because there are only so many untap phases in the game. > Aramis What it means is that I overlooked the last line of the WoKR text. Whoops. Now that I'm awake and paying attention, I take that as confirmation that WoKR is *not* unique. If it were, there would be no reason to impose that additional limiting factor.

J

> What it means is that I overlooked the last line of the WoKR text. > Whoops. > > Now that I'm awake and paying attention, I take that as confirmation > that WoKR is *not* unique. If it were, there would be no reason to > impose that additional limiting factor. Incorrect. Tariq is unique, but I can have an infinite number in my uncontrolled region. Now, it may be that they are not unique, however this phrase doesn't confirm that at all. -- J -- "Fry crack corn, and I don't care, Leela crack corn, I still don't care, Bender crack corn and he is great; Take that you stupid corn!" grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com to email me

emmits...@hotmail.com

J wrote: > > Now that I'm awake and paying attention, I take that as confirmation > > that WoKR is *not* unique. If it were, there would be no reason to > > impose that additional limiting factor. > > Incorrect. > Tariq is unique, but I can have an infinite number in my uncontrolled > region. Now, it may be that they are not unique, however this phrase > doesn't confirm that at all. Perhaps I should have been more clear. If WoKR were Unique, the designers and playtesters would have had no compelling reason to add another line of text to the card imposing a one-per-uncontrolled-region limit because its Uniqueness would be limitation enough from a game balance standpoint. Or so I believe. I'm really going to try to stop posting about this preliminary card wording now.

salem

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 20:00:24 -0500, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> scrawled: >On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:39:51 +1100, salem ><salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:51:40 -0500, The Lasombra >><TheLa...@hotmail.com> scrawled: > >>>http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=115 > >>does anyone have a direct link to the pdf? the .php script is causing >>my browser coniptions. > >http://download.white-wolf.com/download/download.php?file_id=340 > >or here: > >http://www.white-wolf.com/downloads.php?category_id=18 > >where it is the first link. > >It is 9.18 MB, so it will take some time to download. yeah, that was the problem. i was clicking on the download.php, and nothing was happening for ages (other than that tab locking up in my browser) so i was looking for a link ending in .pdf instead so that i could bypass what i thought was the .php script doing weird things. but then when i had finished posting that request in my newsreader and switched back to my browser, there it was. even though i'd set my browser settings to download pdfs instead of loading them internally. stupid thing. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

Damnans

"Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> escribió en el mensaje news:31s5itF...@individual.net... > > <geo...@for.auth.gr> escribió en el mensaje > news:1102634293....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> PLEASE STOP pointing out how good this vampire is... [...] > I see that someone caught my real intention... > > I'll explain: Damnans swept ALL cards involving dai and infernal in our > hometown and it's inmediate surroundings, even overseas. Unless the baali > starter packs a nice amount of such cards (which I don't think so, since > most are rares from bloodlines) it'll be almost impossible for me to build > most decks around this man. > > FYI, in the last infernal storyline, he was able to reach the final round > (and almost win) with a baali deck build around anthelios-path of evil > revelations because NO ONE ELSE has such path here. If I remember correctly, David Fraile still has 1 Path of Evil Revelations (not to mention that Rafel, although not currently playing in Mallorca, has a fair amount of Path of Evil Revelations and other Daimoinon cards) > BAN VALERIUS MAJOR :-P Take it easy, Tom, unless you want to burn in Hell >:-) Greetings, Damnans "At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge", Darth Maul.

geo...@for.auth.gr

hahaha, i just sure hope Baali starter has a great beast in it... I have 5 and i want to make it 8 to try them in a fun Huitzi-Arika Deck... George

geo...@for.auth.gr

well, i am sure that we, who have a lot of Paths of Evil Revelations [i have 5, as fate was generous upon me and i managed to trade in 3 for 4 Pulled Fangs ;)], will burn in hell. As clearly we are the ones who follow the infernal path... P.S. Releasing a Baali starter was the most evil and one of the most interesting news i have ever heard in jyhad... I hope they put some good cards in it... George

geo...@for.auth.gr

How about a KMW contest with a very difficult question (like the ones in 10th anni contest :P) ? And how about 2 KMW starter boxes + 2 KMW booster boxes for the winner ? And how about everyone who answers correctly wins and gets the prizes ? :PP George

Daneel

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:15:15 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Daneel wrote: >> but maybe I could have waited for an actual preview on the site like >> with Bloodlines, Camarilla, etc. > > You'll get that, of course. Goodie! I like those teasers. With actual art and all. Cool. Exasperating. -- Bye, Daneel

Orpheus

> P.S. Releasing a Baali starter was the most evil and one of the most > interesting news i have ever heard in jyhad... Not sure about that, cryptwise... If the vampires in it are just the G2 we know, it's not very interesting. If they add more G2 or G3, it makes them the most populous Bloodlines, which isn't very fair (unless they also release some more !Salubri, Kiasyd etc.). Already 6 playable right now with Barbaro... If they release G4, it means you'll have to choose between your G2 and these ; knowing that there are some G4 Daemonists (the Tremere), it would give and edge to that group ; and would tend to give weight to the G4 Baali probabilities. So all in all : not sure it's gonna be that interesting. -- Orpheus ------------------------------- Come suffer with me (man can only rape his mother for so long) (will time erase the human race ?)

geo...@for.auth.gr

you are right in your speculations... i guess an advanced huitzi is out of the question :P No really, i can't imagine having an advanced baali,. but you never know... Anyway, the options are so many (about the starter's crypt) that i can't really predict what is going to happen. They can include new G4 Baali (KMW is supposed to be focused on indys, so why just release new indys for the 4 well known indy clans and not release some Baali indys as well ?), new G2 or G3 Baali, include Midget, other infernal minions, non infernal minions, crazy cards that make minions infernal, crazy cards that give infernal vampires dai, e.t.c. The possibilities are endless, that's why i can't make a safe prediction, but just say that imo the most possible thing is to release new G4 Baali and thus mix them with Barbaro (G3), Midget (G3) and new infernal minions + some non infernals in the starter. I am sure that the new options for the Baali and the infernals in general will be many and thus we will be able to build many fun and almost-strong infernal decks... That's good! George

geo...@for.auth.gr

Maybe your computer has become infernal and so does not follow your orders... :P Next thing you know, your internet connection becomes corrupted and you can't post to the group, while your refrigerator goes infernal and you get food-poisoned by spoiled ham. P.S. Baali and infernalists rule! George

Kevin M.

Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote: > this card is going to SUCK SUCK SUCK > all the way to my wallpaper box. What's in your wallapper box right now? > ~SV Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

geo...@for.auth.gr

i assume Eyes of the Dead have a prominent place in your box... right ? George

salem

On 10 Dec 2004 00:38:44 -0800, geo...@for.auth.gr scrawled: >hahaha, i just sure hope Baali starter has a great beast in it... > >I have 5 and i want to make it 8 to try them in a fun Huitzi-Arika >Deck... any deck with arika is broken and thus not fun. :P now that i think of it, arika is totally unsuitable for competative play. can we slap her skanky arse on the banned list too please? :) [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2

>Disengage!!!!! Could i dare to expect a discipliness combat ends >?????? You mean like Mercy for the Weak? Halcyan 2

Curevei

>http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=115 > > >VTES: Kindred Most Wanted Wanted, an expansion with four >pre-constructed starter decks and boosters, is available in February. > >Vampire: The Eternal Struggle >Kindred Most Wanted Starters: $9.99 each; $79.92 for display >Boosters: $2.99 each; $107.64 for display > >(See Inside Front Cover and page 18 for stock #s and ISBN) I'm not particularly keen on downloading just to check, do we have an idea on approximate size of the set (nonfixed cards)?

John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] They haven't officially said. But since it definitely _isn't_ a core set like Camarilla or Sabbat War, I'd guess it'll be in line with all the non-Bloodlines expansion sets so far: 130-160 cards or so. -John Flournoy

jeff_kuta

Kindred Most Wanted is the latest expansion for Vampre: The Eternal Struggle (R). This Booster Pack display contain 36 booster packs, each with 11 cards. With 150 unique cards in the expansion, Vampire(r) players get plenty of new options for deck strategies. Retail Price: $107.64 ($2.99/pack)