black hand : only one pander ?

why only one pander ? is WW toning down the weenie potential ?

Maybe Olga will be a mega Pander. A Pander so great we are now and forevermore awed by her awesome Panderness. Or maybe they just wanted the one this time. I'm kinda disappointed we haven't got Joseph Pander yet. He is the main man in Clan Pander. Perhaps Gehenna will bring him to us. "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3faac9dc$0$28252$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ]

>why only one pander ? >is WW toning down the weenie potential ? Truthfully, I'm beginning to get a little concerned about vampire distribution among clans as well. I was initially okay with just 4 Lasombra since they got an extra vampire (and Advanced to boot) in CE. But now, we currently have 5 !Brujah, 6 !Gangrel, 4 Lasombra, 4 !Malkavians, 6 !Nosferatu, and 1 Pander. The !Gangrel amount is understandable, since they've always been split due to Country/City differences. I'm a little wary of how many !Nos are showing up, since in addition the !Nos starter contains 2 new vampires not from the boosters. So either there's going to be a lot of !Nos, or maybe some non-!Nos (maybe Pander) will show up in the starter? Halcyan 2

> >why only one pander ? > >is WW toning down the weenie potential ? Wouldn't be a bad thing, either, but then it would have had to start with the Caitiffs (well, in a way it did...). But consider : the Caitiffs were Group 1 and became Group 3, so are uncompatible. The Pander were Group 2, the new ones will be Group 3, so compatible. It makes sense not to produce too many of them. Let's just hope the old ones will be reprinted in the appropriate starters, as was Mitchell. Orpheus

When the !Nos win a Tournament, lets worry : ) "Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20031106191603...@mb-m01.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Morrison" <kry...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<O8Aqb.324104$6C4.246737@pd7tw1no>... [ quoted text not captured ] Anyone notice we also have 6 !Nos and only 4 !Malks? And theoretically, we have 2 more of each in each deck, so maybe the 2 vampires who will be deck-exclusive won´t be all of the deck´s main clan. So we could see a new Pander or 2 in the !Nos deck. Otherwise, we will have 8 new !Nos and only 6 new !Malks if the decks each contain only vampires of one clan.

> > Anyone notice we also have 6 !Nos and only 4 !Malks? And > theoretically, we have 2 more of each in each deck, so maybe the 2 > vampires who will be deck-exclusive won´t be all of the deck´s main > clan. So we could see a new Pander or 2 in the !Nos deck. Otherwise, > we will have 8 new !Nos and only 6 new !Malks if the decks each > contain only vampires of one clan. It's definitely possible the Panders will make it in the starters. I'd expect the Tor or Tremere anti would be more likely to have them. Joseph Pander should be made. C'mon White Wolf, get the man for Clan Pander out and into the game.

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:00:38 -0500, "Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> scrawled: >When the !Nos win a Tournament, lets worry : ) along with 5 other !nos decks in the TWD is this little gem from Peter: Northeast Qualifier Tournament at Totalcon Feb 23rd, 2002 Andover, MA. Winning Deck by Peter Bakija The Nosferatu Hate You! (version 6.0) Crypt: 2x Hesina Kesi (1) pot 1x Paul DiCarlo, The Alpha (2) pot 1x KoKo (2) pot 2x Duck (3) pot, obf 2x Agatha (4) POT, obf 2x Olivia (5) POT, OBF, Bishop 1x Nigel the Shunned (5) POT, obf 1x Beast, Leatherface of Detroit (7) POT, OBF Average of 3.5 Library: 4x Haven Uncovered 3x Potence 3x Blood Doll 2x Fame 2x Dreams of the Sphinx 12x Immortal Grapple 10x Undead Strength 10x Torn Signpost 4x Fists of Death 4x Disarm 2x Decapitate 8x Behind You 8x Taste of Vitae 11x Bum's Rush 6x Computer Hacking 1x Delaying Tactics The Delaying Tactics was my total prayer card, put in to hopefully avoid getting Dramatic Upheavaled and having my VP stolen, but I never actually played it this tournament. The Computer Hackings were a fairly recent addition, and they were nothing but good--they sped up my ability to bleed, often doubled as a Rush action, and could always be cycled. I'm thinking about taking out the last two Decapitates for 2 more Hackings. And the Paul DeCarlo? Yeah, sure he is just another 2 cap with pot, but between the hot chick, cool suit, and looking like John Cale, he added nothing but class to my deck. so, do we worry yet? :) salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:16:46 +1100, salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:00:38 -0500, "Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> >scrawled: > >>When the !Nos win a Tournament, lets worry : ) > >along with 5 other !nos decks in the TWD is this little gem from >Peter: > >Northeast Qualifier Tournament at Totalcon >Feb 23rd, 2002 >Andover, MA. >Winning Deck by Peter Bakija > >The Nosferatu Hate You! (version 6.0) <Snip> It's true. I have a digital pic of Peter's Nossie's playing a Computer Hack, which just seemed wrong somehow hehe.. >so, do we worry yet? :) > >salem >domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

[ quoted text not captured ] Roger, Ingram, and Tock are precon only, so should not have appeared on the preview list as U2. A few others were omitted from their place in the list. Not sure what happened there in my conversion from my source list to the HTML, but it was obviously quite scrambled. My apologies for the errors. Including BH, each Sabbat clan (not counting Pander or Bloodlines) will have equal numbers of vampires to a variance of 1. Except for the Gangrel antitribu, whose numbers are slightly inflated due to the city/country split. Discounting printing errors involving the omission of vampires, of course. Web page is now updated and correct (hopefully). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031106191603...@mb-m01.aol.com>... > Truthfully, I'm beginning to get a little concerned about vampire distribution > among clans as well. > > I was initially okay with just 4 Lasombra since they got an extra vampire (and > Advanced to boot) in CE. But now, we currently have 5 !Brujah, 6 !Gangrel, 4 > Lasombra, 4 !Malkavians, 6 !Nosferatu, and 1 Pander. The !Gangrel amount is > understandable, since they've always been split due to Country/City > differences. I've no idea if WW is doing this to keep the set consistent with the RPG metagame, but I'd guess they are, based on the numbers. The Hand is mostly !Assamite, which we don't get in Jyhad (though I've always thought it would be very neat to see some !Assamites without the Blood Curse - it's not like most of the existing Assamites are costed appropriately for their discipline spreads, given their inherent clan flaw). Next up, numberwise, is the City Gangrel. There are lots of !Nosferatu as well, as the Hand is about assassination rather than outright brutality, for the most part. Panders generally don't have the clout to get recognition within their own packs, let alone by the Hand. Kushiel

> I've no idea if WW is doing this to keep the set consistent with the RPG > metagame, but I'd guess they are, based on the numbers. The Hand is mostly > !Assamite, which we don't get in Jyhad (though I've always thought it would > be very neat to see some !Assamites without the Blood Curse - it's not like > most of the existing Assamites are costed appropriately for their discipline > spreads, given their inherent clan flaw). Next up, numberwise, is the City > Gangrel. There are lots of !Nosferatu as well, as the Hand is about > assassination rather than outright brutality, for the most part. Panders > generally don't have the clout to get recognition within their own packs, > let alone by the Hand. You're forgetting of course that the Assamite antitribu were called back to the Eagle's Nest by the Eldest to suffer his judgement. Not many of them made it, so we're unlikely to see many (any?) of them here... Regards, Mike

Mike Nudd expounded: > You're forgetting of course that the Assamite antitribu were called back to > the Eagle's Nest by the Eldest to suffer his judgement. Not many of them > made it, so we're unlikely to see many (any?) of them here... yeah and there are so many !Tremere and Ravnos left in the WoD...

> You're forgetting of course that the Assamite antitribu were called back to > the Eagle's Nest by the Eldest to suffer his judgement. Not many of them > made it, so we're unlikely to see many (any?) of them here... Mike - you are correct but Justin Achilli has already stated that even _after_ the exodus from the BH, the Assamite Antitribu still make up the largest group within the Black Hand with the Gangrel Antitribu coming in a distant second place. Take care, Todd B.

"Todd Banister" <tban...@primarycapital.com> wrote in message news:<MvRqb.1763$X5.2...@eagle.america.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] I'm sure someone has mentioned this somewhere else, but surely a new clan would fall under "new rules", and thus there won't be an "Assamite Antitribu" clan. HOWEVER - in the past, the spoiler list has been grouped by "standard sect" and not by the sect that vampires actually show up as. In Anarchs, the Gangrel appeared with the Cam, even though we knew they were changing over, and Adv Tegyrius appeared with the independents. I expect that we'll have an "independent" section that includes several Assamites who will turn out to have "Sabbat", "Black Hand" and maybe even "Seraph" as part of their card text. Nothing to worry about yet. I don't think we'll be disappointed. Eric Simon Prince of Chicago

>Subject: Re: black hand : only one pander ? >From: thisi_s...@yahoo.com (kushiel) >Date: 11/7/03 7:52 AM Central Standard Time >Message-id: <6f98ce2a.0311...@posting.google.com> >The Hand is mostly >!Assamite, which we don't get in Jyhad (though I've always thought it would >be very neat to see some !Assamites without the Blood Curse - it's not like >most of the existing Assamites are costed appropriately for their >discipline >spreads, given their inherent clan flaw). They *are* costed appropriately. The diablerie restriction is not significant enough to be worth points. Neither is Sterile or Cold Iron Vulnerability. (Compare to Slave, Infernal, and Scarce for example) Halcyan 2

On 8 Nov 2003, Halcyan 2 wrote: > They *are* costed appropriately. The diablerie restriction is not significant > enough to be worth points. Neither is Sterile or Cold Iron Vulnerability. > (Compare to Slave, Infernal, and Scarce for example) I think whether it is significant or not is a matter of opinion, not fact. IMO it is significant enough, given the focus of available strategies to the Assamites, to warrant some compensatory abilities. Not that I actually expect to see said abilities, of course. David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 david.che...@duke.edu

"Todd Banister" <tban...@primarycapital.com> wrote in message news:MvRqb.1763$X5.2...@eagle.america.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Ah but when did Justin make that statement? I'm guessing that the CCG is a couple of steps ahead of the RPG - for example in the RPG Tegyrius is not yet confirmed as the new Assamite Justicar but we know it's going to happen. From what I've seen and heard, those few !Assamites that survive Ur-Shulgi's judgement abandon the BH to return to the fold instead, and on that basis I would be surprised if there are *any* !Assamites in the CCG at all... :) Regards, Mike

>Ah but when did Justin make that statement? I'm guessing that the CCG is a >couple of steps ahead of the RPG - for example in the RPG Tegyrius is not >yet confirmed as the new Assamite Justicar but we know it's going to happen. >From what I've seen and heard, those few !Assamites that survive Ur-Shulgi's >judgement abandon the BH to return to the fold instead, and on that basis I >would be surprised if there are *any* !Assamites in the CCG at all... :) Or maybe all the !Assamites just get stomped out when the !Tremere return! =P Halcyan 2

> Including BH, each Sabbat clan (not counting Pander or Bloodlines) will have > equal numbers of vampires to a variance of 1. Except for the Gangrel antitribu, > whose numbers are slightly inflated due to the city/country split. > > Discounting printing errors involving the omission of vampires, of course. > > Web page is now updated and correct (hopefully). Does that include the antitribu Tremere? The preview only shows 3. The Lasombra are going to at least 18+5=23. The !Tremere will be 16+3=19. That means they have to have at least 3 more !Tremere in the starters to get them within 1 of the Lasombra. Kris Zierhut

[ quoted text not captured ] Advanced vampires are paired with base vampires in my accounting. [ quoted text not captured ]

KZie...@yahoo.com (Kris Zierhut) wrote in message news:<24d59333.03111...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] It has already been stated that there are 2 !Tremere in the !Trem starter; the Lasombra only have 17 if you count both Lucitas as one, maybe? -John Flournoy

> It has already been stated that there are 2 !Tremere in the !Trem > starter; the Lasombra only have 17 if you count both Lucitas as one, > maybe? > > -John Flournoy I get it. Lasombra have 2 advanced vampires who Scott is not counting. So, they actually need only 1 !Tremere in their starter to be within 1 of the Lasombra... Good to know they have 2, though. Kris Zierhut

> yeah and there are so many !Tremere and Ravnos left in the WoD... Actually, non-ethnic Ravnos are pretty populous, and are growing in number post-week. The Week served primarily to rid the clan of the ethnic stereotype. As for !Tremere, they're supported because they were supported in the past, and thus need to stay fairly balanced with the other clans. Adding the !Assamites as a new clan is HIGHLY unlikely. More likely, there will be Assamites with the Sabbat tag, a la Anka in Final Nights. Fanboy