any luck with Tremere decks?

anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering...

Woody Carey (wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: : anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... -- "Get busy living or get busy dying...that's goddamned right." -Red "Shawshank Redemption" "There's not a word yet for old friends who just met" -Gonzo "I'm going back there somday" "Pity he who spreads joy, for who shall spread joy unto him?" -Ghoul

Woody Carey wrote: > > anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... Yes. using intercepts, traps, Cualdron Of Blood and Walk of Flame. Not a good bleeding deck, but have had success against bleed decks. They can dish out alot of damage during the second round of combat, but you need the traps and presses to get there. The intercepts help get you into combat, especially if you predator is using stealth cards. I usually pack a couple of Auspex skill cards in the deck. Good hunting. Kevin

Mikel L. Matthews Jr. (gh...@firefly.prairienet.org) wrote: : Woody Carey (wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: : : anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... Yes and No... The cards Cauldron of Blood and Theft of Vitae can *really* mess up even Capacity-8+ vampires, so use Trap. Unfortunately, I've never actually killed my Prey with this deck, usually because I seldom get a good shuffle... But if you wanna do damage, Thaumaturgy's a way to go... And with a few Conditioning cards, you can (occassionally) get in a 4-point bleed... -- Mike Miller mum...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu http://www.ECNet.Net/users/mumjm02/home.html

On 23 May 1996, Lord Dispater wrote: > Yes and No... The cards Cauldron of Blood and Theft of Vitae > can *really* mess up even Capacity-8+ vampires, so use Trap. > Unfortunately, I've never actually killed my Prey with this > deck, usually because I seldom get a good shuffle... But if you wanna > do damage, Thaumaturgy's a way to go... And with a few Conditioning > cards, you can (occassionally) get in a 4-point bleed... I have had some decent success with Tremere in VTES. I usually finish second with it most times, rarely win. I find that Theft of Vitae combined with Taste of Vitae to be one nasty combo, especially against Brujah. The only Dominate card I include at this point is Thoughts Betrayed. Speaking of which I have had a Brujah player use TB on me while I was playing Tremere, needless to say he whupped my butt in that combat. I am wondering what to use to counter the TB card. The only thing I can think of is another Dominate card, that being Obedience. Since they both take effect before combat begins, it is the only counter I can think of. Someone plays TB, you slap down Obedience and tell em to sit down and shut up. Anybody else have any suggestions?....

Woody Carey <wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote: >anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... In my group we have a player who has a deck called "Good to the Last Drop" It is thefts, drain essecnces, Movement of the minds eye, traps, and Walk of Flames. Heavy Blood Dolls and some bleed mods as well as good bleed defense and some light intercept. Very effective against most decks. Rory

On Thu, 23 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > I have had some decent success with Tremere in VTES. I usually finish > second with it most times, rarely win. I find that Theft of Vitae > combined with Taste of Vitae to be one nasty combo, especially against > Brujah. The only Dominate card I include at this point is Thoughts > Betrayed. The combo is invalid. Taste of Vitae has been erratad to only cause the playing vampire to gain the blood lost from _damage_. Theft does not damage. > Speaking of which I have had a Brujah player use TB on me while I was > playing Tremere, needless to say he whupped my butt in that combat. I am > wondering what to use to counter the TB card. The only thing I can think > of is another Dominate card, that being Obedience. Since they both take > effect before combat begins, it is the only counter I can think of. > Someone plays TB, you slap down Obedience and tell em to sit down and > shut up. Anybody else have any suggestions?.... Unfortunately there aren't many, and they are relatively fragile: permanents. They are fragile because many of them are unique (Elysium: The Arboretum,e.g.) or worse, only marginally useful (Police Department). Those that aren't are equipment for the most part, so any surprise factor is lost. While its "brokenness" is debatable (and has been), I personally feel this was a poorly done card. "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) z*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Woody Carey wrote: > > anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... I had a reasonably succesfull Tremere deck. It consited of three Chantries, three Talbot's Chainsaws and some blood refreshers (hunting ground, Arcane Lib, Blood Doll, Rack, Palatial estate,...). I also used some magic o/t smiths to get to my Chainsaw, and I had an extra Ivory Bow, and some thaum combat cards for the extra sting (and blood!). The great part is seeing your opponent laugh because of the Chainsaw (aw, come on. Are you going to kill your own vamps?), and then see the dread in their faces after putting a low Trem into torpor, and then using the Chantry to get them out again. Hey, the Chainsaw now only costs two blood and you need no actions to get Vamps out of torpor. Unfortunately, Fame is banned in our group, because else... -- |~~| "Sure I've got a brain, it's a multilayer Kohonen net" |~~| |oost Hage (ha...@cs.utwente.nl) \_/ Oh yeah, this is my personal opinion, and mine only

On Thu, 23 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > Speaking of which I have had a Brujah player use TB on me while I was > playing Tremere, needless to say he whupped my butt in that combat. I am > wondering what to use to counter the TB card. The only thing I can think > of is another Dominate card, that being Obedience. Since they both take > effect before combat begins, it is the only counter I can think of. > Someone plays TB, you slap down Obedience and tell em to sit down and > shut up. Anybody else have any suggestions?.... Elysium: The Arboretum or Mariel, or any other permanent combat ends effect. -- mal...@macatawa.org Peter Lowe +=+=+ Edmonton, AB VtES web page available soon!

Woody Carey (wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: : On 23 May 1996, Lord Dispater wrote: : Speaking of which I have had a Brujah player use TB on me while I was : playing Tremere, needless to say he whupped my butt in that combat. I am : wondering what to use to counter the TB card. The only thing I can think : of is another Dominate card, that being Obedience. Since they both take : effect before combat begins, it is the only counter I can think of. : Someone plays TB, you slap down Obedience and tell em to sit down and : shut up. Anybody else have any suggestions?.... Weeelll.... according to the latest rulings... First off, Obedience does in fact beat TB, BUT you have to be very careful with it. TB is a combat card which is played at the last possible instant before combat begins, AFTER all modifiers and reactions have been played. Essentially, a betrayer must give modifiers and reactioners a chance to play all of their cards, and then he/she may play TB just as combat is entering. In other words, Obedience works -- but you have to have played it BEFORE the TB. If the TB player gave you sufficient time to play the Obedience and you didn't, well, yer out of luck. As far as TB counters... essentially, you need to have some permanent effects available to you (equipment, locations, vampire special abilities) because you can NOT play NEW cards from your hand. The Elysium that you have on the table could come in handy... -spongy

I've had luck with a couple styles of Tremere. 1) Dominate, Auspex, Thaum. Traditional Tremere disciplines. Intercept, hose, and bleed, or bounce if you want. 2) Thaum, Celerity, and either Auspex or Dominate. Auspex if you want to intercept, Dominate if you want to bleed and bounce. Additional strikes with Thaum & Celerity are extremely fun. If you can get the combo, Cauldron of Blood and Walk of Flame on 2nd round are very happy. 3) My personal favorite. Death to the Gangrel! Hard to pull off, but will waste most decks in combat. Fortitude, Thaumaturgy, and probably Dominate. Bounce and combat. Use Cardano, Merril Molitor and anyone else that's below 5 with Thaumaturgy or Fortitude. Play a Dawn Operation and then hit 'em with Blood Fury or Rage and watch them land in torpor as you prevent their damage. Christian

jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) wrote: >As far as TB counters... essentially, you need to have some permanent effects >available to you (equipment, locations, vampire special abilities) because you >can NOT play NEW cards from your hand. The Elysium that you have on the table >could come in handy... Heidelberg Castle, of course, can make sure that the permanents get to the right minion at the right time. :-) TJH

>anyone have much luck with Tremere decks? just wondering... Yes. I first decided to play the Tremere solo when my friend showed me that some clans can hold their own (i.e. he played a solo Gangrel deck and it kicked ass). At first, the Tremere deck didn't work. I put in the Movements, and the cauldrons, and the walks, and all the fun "I beat the hell out of you" cards (including a few celerity cards for the big Tremere), but it just didn't win. So I decided "speed bleed" was the way to go. In otherwords, I put in 3 Information highways, took out most of the celerity, added another Chantry and two Fames, 3 Pentex Subversions (awesome card), and I tweeked my crypt so that I had an average cost of about 5.6 or 6. And with these changes I haven't lost yet! The main idea behind it is that on turn one you have at least one, possibly even two, vampires out - one of them should have dominate (Jing Wei, Sarah Cobbler, etc.). Turn two, you play your master card (hopefully Pentex Subversion), and bleed them with a nice big Conditioning. Turn three, your opponent will most likely still have the Pentex, so you bleed him again with dominate and so on. An example of the power of this is that I had a total of ten vampires in my active region to my prey's 3 or 4 near the end of the game. My prey ousted my Predator, and then I bled my prey for thirteen, killing him (even after gaining the six for killing his prey). E-mail me and I'll give you a list of what's in the deck. Cheers, Jim -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- An apology for the Devil - it must be remembered that we have only heard one side of the case. God has written all the books. -Samuel Butler -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jim & Andrew Davis da...@spectra.net

A trick I use with Trem decks is to combine relatively low level vampires with Auspex and Thaum. Get into combat and do the best you can. After combat, play fast reaction and you now have a free strike. When in combat, I prefer the Blood Fury and Blood Rage cards over the other types of cards because the damage cannot be prevented effectively. An Offensive trick is to use dawn operations and Weather Control. I usually play with an extra Molitors and Several Flak Jackets in this case and the damage is quick, aggravated, and unpreventable. Last deck idea combines Giovanni and Trem. Use Cryptic missions and Jar the Souls to Reduce opposing vamps to a minimal amount. Play with allies (Outcast and Thadius), and use necromancy to keep the ally in play. XCDC...@aol.com

On Fri, 24 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > On Thu, 23 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > > > I have had some decent success with Tremere in VTES. I usually finish > > second with it most times, rarely win. I find that Theft of Vitae > > combined with Taste of Vitae to be one nasty combo, especially against > > Brujah. The only Dominate card I include at this point is Thoughts > > Betrayed. > > The combo is invalid. Taste of Vitae has been erratad to only cause the > playing vampire to gain the blood lost from _damage_. Theft does not damage. O-o-o-o-hhh... RREALLLLY?!?! Hmmm... I know that saracasm does not translate well on the net, but geez, I'd have to say that you can't use Taste with Theft of Vitae kinda SPANKS, and rather hard at that. Hmmmm... Well, let's whip out the ol' cards in question. Taste of Vitae states: "This vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat by the opposing vampire. Play after the strike resolution. Not usuable by a vampire going into torpor." No where in that does it say, "blood lost during the current combat due to damage." It merely says, "...lost during..." Theft of Vitae certainly makes you lose blood, so it would seem to me that playing Taste of Vitae along with Theft is perfectly valid. I have never seen on errata stating otherwise, nor was I previously aware of such a statement being made. Has the text of the VTES Taste of Vitae been changed to effect this so called ruling? It shall be interesting to find out nonetheless....

On 25 May 1996 XCDC...@aol.com wrote: > A trick I use with Trem decks is to combine relatively low level > vampires with Auspex and Thaum. Get into combat and do the best > you can. After combat, play fast reaction and you now have a free > strike. Quite true, and I found it to be most effective with Aura Reading as well. > When in combat, I prefer the Blood Fury and Blood Rage cards over > the other types of cards because the damage cannot be prevented > effectively. I don't like Blood Fury simply because it costs you a blood. What's the one thing you are gauranteed to lose in a combat deck? Blood. So why not minimize that loss by taking wads of Blood Rages and Theft of Vitae cards.... That's what I do anyway... > Last deck idea combines Giovanni and Trem. Use Cryptic missions > and Jar the Souls to Reduce opposing vamps to a minimal amount. > Play with allies (Outcast and Thadius), and use necromancy to keep > the ally in play. To messy to really be effective. Do the math on the Outcast Mage and you find that he is not really worth his cost. It takes and action to recruit as well, that would be better spent bleeding someone or beatin' the snot out of someone. (Do vampires have snot since they're undead?... interesting...) see ya!

O-o-o-o-hhh... RREALLLLY?!?! Hmmm... I know that saracasm does not translate well on the net, but geez, I'd have to say that you can't use Taste with Theft of Vitae kinda SPANKS, and rather hard at that. Hmmmm... Well, let's whip out the ol' cards in question. Taste of Vitae states: "This vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat by the opposing vampire. Play after the strike resolution. Not usuable by a vampire going into torpor." No where in that does it say, "blood lost during the current combat due to damage." It merely says, "...lost during..." Theft of Vitae certainly makes you lose blood, so it would seem to me that playing Taste of Vitae along with Theft is perfectly valid. I have never seen on errata stating otherwise, nor was I previously aware of such a statement being made. Has the text of the VTES Taste of Vitae been changed to effect this so called ruling? It shall be interesting to find out nonetheless.... ---------------------------------------- There is an errata that states that Theft of Vitae can't be stopped by damage prevention cards because it is not damage. Taste would not work in this situation because you have already gained the blood from the opposing vampire, you can't steal it twice. Eric

okay, once again, it does not state anything about *how* you lose the blood on the Taste of Vitae card, just as long as you do. You use Theft to steal two blood. They just lost two blood, which qualifies under the Taste of Vitae guidelines on the card. Just because the errata states that there is no "damage" from Theft because it is stealing blood, that does not mean it does not count as "loss of blood during current round." I geuss I failing to see where the jump from the errata to the theft-taste combo is being made in a justifiable way...

Once again, Taste of Vitae has errata such that it *does* care how blood is lost. Specifically, it only gives your vampire blood based on the damage successfully dealt to the opposing vampire. It will not, for example, grant blood for blood that was lost due to "steal blood" effects, or to paying a cost of some kind. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > okay, once again, it does not state anything about *how* you lose the > blood on the Taste of Vitae card, just as long as you do. <Sigh> Hence the idea of _errata_. They have officially changed the text of the card. It will not say it on your old cards. It does say it on the new ones. Even before it was stated on the new cards, it was _errata_d to work so that blood lost to _damage_ is what taste of vitae works off of. >You use Theft > to steal two blood. They just lost two blood, which qualifies under the > Taste of Vitae guidelines on the card. Just because the errata states > that there is no "damage" from Theft because it is stealing blood, that > does not mean it does not count as "loss of blood during current round." Theft of Vitae has no errata to it. There is a general ruling that steal X blood does not qualify as damage. In any case, it is unimportant whether or not steal X blood is erratad. _Taste_of_Vitae_ was erratad to be effective against blood lost to damage. > I geuss I failing to see where the jump from the errata to the > theft-taste combo is being made in a justifiable way... See above [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] They might have some snot left if they don't clean out their nose when they die, but likely it will all dissipate away over time... Anyway, I have to disagree on your assessment of Thadius. Certainly he is a high cost ally, but his ability is invaluable. With it, you can easily keep down a large vampire. Once any vampire arrives at 1 or 0 blood, they are yours to control (barring blood for vampire cards like Gird Minions, Blood Doll (giving blood) or the correct hunting ground). For the rest of the game, until they get one of the above cards, that minion will be stuck hunting. Its similar to having a society of leopold on someone, with the drawback being it is blockable and killable, and the advantage being it is changeable to targets of your choice. Thadius is well worth it. [ quoted text not captured ]

Woody Carey (wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: : okay, once again, it does not state anything about *how* you lose the : blood on the Taste of Vitae card, just as long as you do. You use Theft : to steal two blood. They just lost two blood, which qualifies under the : Taste of Vitae guidelines on the card. Just because the errata states : that there is no "damage" from Theft because it is stealing blood, that : does not mean it does not count as "loss of blood during current round." : I geuss I failing to see where the jump from the errata to the : theft-taste combo is being made in a justifiable way... Because there have ALSO been rulings made for Taste. Sorry you didn't hear. I snagged these rulings from L. Scott Johnson's excellent site: Official Rulings Taste of Vitae - combat: #Counts all blood burned to any cause (healing, card cost, etc.) [RTR] Only counts damage successfully inflicted on the opposing vampire. It will not, for example, give blood for blood spent playing combat cards or stolen blood. [RTR] May be played after any strike resolution step, but will not count blood lost during future strikes in the same round. [TOM 951217] The blood is gained immediately, and can be used to heal damage from future strikes, even in the same round. [TOM 951217] Only counts blood lost to damage inflicted by the opposing minion. [TOM 960302] The ruling with the "#" before it reflects an OVERTURNED ruling. You will note that TWO subsequent rulings, including one from _this year_ indicate that taste "only counts blood lost to damage". It isn't so much a jump from the errata to theft as it is a reading of the errata to taste. Again, I am sorry. -spongy

On Tue, 28 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > Anyway, I have to disagree on your assessment of Thadius. Certainly he <<<<SNIP>>>>> > advantage being it is changeable to targets of your choice. Thadius is > well worth it. I think Thadius is quite valuable, but not the Outcast Mage....

On 28 May 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: > > Once again, Taste of Vitae has errata such that it *does* care how blood > is lost. Specifically, it only gives your vampire blood based on the damage > successfully dealt to the opposing vampire. It will not, for example, grant > blood for blood that was lost due to "steal blood" effects, or to paying > a cost of some kind. CONGRATS!!! You have just hosed Tremere and made them completely worthless as a combat deck in VTES. I won't play them ever again... and we wonder why people are starting to think WOTC is a bunch of lamers in mass quantities......

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > On 28 May 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: [The errata to Taste of Vitae] > CONGRATS!!! You have just hosed Tremere and made them completely > worthless as a combat deck in VTES. I won't play them ever again... and > we wonder why people are starting to think WOTC is a bunch of lamers in > mass quantities...... Oh, come on. The Tremere are still wonderful. Before the errata, Theft/Taste was really out of line. After it, the Tremere are a wonderful clan. If you really have opposition to this, at least be cordial about it. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > On 28 May 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: > > > > > Once again, Taste of Vitae has errata such that it *does* care how blood > > is lost. Specifically, it only gives your vampire blood based on the damage > > successfully dealt to the opposing vampire. It will not, for example, grant > > blood for blood that was lost due to "steal blood" effects, or to paying > > a cost of some kind. > > CONGRATS!!! You have just hosed Tremere and made them completely > worthless as a combat deck in VTES. I won't play them ever again... and > we wonder why people are starting to think WOTC is a bunch of lamers in > mass quantities...... It seems to me that, if the changing of one card makes a clan completely useless, you are not playing the clan (or perhaps the game) correctly. Tremere are a powerful combat deck but they have to be used properly and they cannot get by on the use of one card. Don't look for a deck that will win everytime. Look for a deck that can survive toward the endgame in a 5 player game 30% of the time. > > >

On Wed, 29 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > Oh, come on. The Tremere are still wonderful. Before the errata, > Theft/Taste was really out of line. After it, the Tremere are a > wonderful clan. If you really have opposition to this, at least be > cordial about it. Like I said before saracasm does not translate well on the net... sorry. I really don't see the Tremere combat deck recovering from that kind of blow... I just took mine apart because of this kind of wacky ruling... but then, the group I play with knows that some of the rulings made here are kinda goofy anyway, so I geuss I'll just take it with a grain of salt.... <sigh>

[ quoted text not captured ] I still can't imagine what kind of Tremere combat deck you are playing if this errata is such a blow to your deck. Post it for us, or send me a copy for my deck archive (at <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> under the Blood Bound Dealer). If your deck is that reliant on _Taste_of_Vitae_, what exactly are you focusing on. While your at it, let us know what kind of environment you are playing in (house rules, etc.) Boggled minds want to know. ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > On Tue, 28 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > > Anyway, I have to disagree on your assessment of Thadius. Certainly he > <<<<SNIP>>>>> > I think Thadius is quite valuable, but not the Outcast Mage.... Imagine 12 outcast mages in play. Thadius is unique. With 1 bleed, 2R and an optional manuver, I couldn't think of a better ally to have 12 of in play at one time ;> Combine that with KRCG News Radio and London Tabloid Evening Newspaper and maybe a few sport bikes, and well... Andre [4;31mM [34mi [35ms [36mt [0;37me [4;31mr [34mB [35mu [36mn [4;31mg [34ml [35me [Goth Code Version 2.0]: GoJu+ TJt(AnIn) B5/10Bk! cDBRw-- PSa(GSh) V++s M+D ZGo(InGn) C+2u a20= n-3 b-:-- H173 gA m-- w+! r+3 D--~% h+TAn s10 k- Rn)m( SsYy N0993WPnlw LusAZ+HzM*2WA++HdS)$(

On Tue, 28 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > > Anyway, I have to disagree on your assessment of Thadius. Certainly he <<<<<SNIP!>>>>> > advantage being it is changeable to targets of your choice. Thadius is > well worth it. Damn skippy Thadius Zho is worth it! I wasn't questioning his value though. I have an issue with the value of Outcast Mages

On Wed, 29 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > On Wed, 29 May 1996, The Corrupter wrote: > > Oh, come on. The Tremere are still wonderful. Before the errata, > > Theft/Taste was really out of line. After it, the Tremere are a > > wonderful clan. If you really have opposition to this, at least be > > cordial about it. > Like I said before saracasm does not translate well on the net... > sorry. I really don't see the Tremere combat deck recovering from that > kind of blow... I just took mine apart because of this kind of wacky > ruling... but then, the group I play with knows that some of the rulings > made here are kinda goofy anyway, so I geuss I'll just take it with a > grain of salt.... <sigh> I'm really at a loss to see this as a "goofy" ruling. What could possibly be goofier than Tasting stolen blood? How can you slurp it up when it's already inside you? There's some goofy rulings, but this ain't one of them. P.S. Tom, can you still (officially) play multiple Tastes in a round? Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960528214313.6982B-100000@gladstone>, Woody Carey <wca...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote: > On 28 May 1996, Thomas R Wylie wrote: > > > > > Once again, Taste of Vitae has errata such that it *does* care how blood > > is lost. Specifically, it only gives your vampire blood based on the damage > > successfully dealt to the opposing vampire. It will not, for example, grant > > blood for blood that was lost due to "steal blood" effects, or to paying > > a cost of some kind. > > CONGRATS!!! You have just hosed Tremere and made them completely > worthless as a combat deck in VTES. I won't play them ever again... and > we wonder why people are starting to think WOTC is a bunch of lamers in > mass quantities...... Ever heard of Cauldron of Blood? BTW, I have a question: suppose you play Taste after hitting with a Cauldron, but your victim only had 2 blood. Do you get 2, or 3/5 depending on the level of the Cauldron? J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com> PGP keys by request

If you don't like it, don't play it, I don't see anyonme holding you to this Woody. Errol T.

I have made two decks that do pretty well, utilising Tremere as the main components, although both decks utilise a secondary clan to some extent. (these decks, you must understand, were designed under 4CL, 1CL uniques - including vampires. Also note that thoughts betrayed is a banned card in our group.) The first I created was basically Toreador / Tremere. The crypt included 7 Tremere, 4 Toreador and anvil. The deck was basically auspex intercept combat, using thaumaturgy and celerity to beat people up in combat. Celerity comes with a lot of manoeuvres and presses, so it is a brilliant addition to a thaumaturgy deck. The next deck I made (the one I play with now) is a thaumaturgy / fortitude deck. It works along bruise and bleed principles for getting in to combat. the vampires are basically 6 tremere and 4 ventrue with Darius Styx and Gwendolyn added. There's a nice little combo for this deck: Dawn operation and blood rage/blood fury - 2 or 3 unpreventable aggro damage! This works especially well as nearly everyone in our group utilises fortitude combat. one person uses chimerstry as well, but this just means that he'll have to use up an apparition, which he normally likes to keep for the trap combo to torporise a vampire - and on apparition isn't always good enough! Are there any AH vampires that fit either of these decks (we haven't got AH in Britain yet). cheerio, Ben,

>BTW, I have a question: suppose you play Taste after hitting with a >Cauldron, but your victim only had 2 blood. Do you get 2, or 3/5 >depending on the level of the Cauldron? You cannot get more blood than the vampire possessed before the strike. Taste of Vitae can be thought of as turning a strike into a steal blood strike except fortitude can still be used and it sends people to torpor.

CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >P.S. Tom, can you still (officially) play multiple Tastes in a round? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

ew...@chattanooga.net (J. Andrew Lipscomb) writes: >BTW, I have a question: suppose you play Taste after hitting with a >Cauldron, but your victim only had 2 blood. Do you get 2, or 3/5 >depending on the level of the Cauldron? Taste only counts blood lost due to damage - not damage inflicted nor blood lost to other things. So, in your example, you'd only gain 2. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Make it idiot proof and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | someone will make a better Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | idiot.

> The next deck I made (the one I play with now) is a thaumaturgy / fortitude > deck. It works along bruise and bleed principles for getting in to combat. > the vampires are basically 6 tremere and 4 ventrue with Darius Styx and > Gwendolyn added. There's a nice little combo for this deck: Dawn operation > and blood rage/blood fury - 2 or 3 unpreventable aggro damage! This works > especially well as nearly everyone in our group utilises fortitude combat. > one person uses chimerstry as well, but this just means that he'll have to > use up an apparition, which he normally likes to keep for the trap combo to > torporise a vampire - and on apparition isn't always good enough! > > Are there any AH vampires that fit either of these decks (we haven't got AH > in Britain yet). Bindusara (Ventrue-9) has superior Fortitude and basic Thaumaturgy. If you do any politics in that deck, Kemintiri (FOS-10) will serve well, although she doesn't have fortitude. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 5 Jun 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > ew...@chattanooga.net (J. Andrew Lipscomb) writes: > > >BTW, I have a question: suppose you play Taste after hitting with a > >Cauldron, but your victim only had 2 blood. Do you get 2, or 3/5 > >depending on the level of the Cauldron? > > Taste only counts blood lost due to damage - not damage inflicted nor > blood lost to other things. So, in your example, you'd only gain 2. I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! Sorry, it's just that I hate not being able to play with a good card because whenever it comes out, it starts arguments. -- mal...@macatawa.org Peter Lowe +=+=+ Edmonton, AB VtES web page available soon!

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960610171502.5965A-100000@freenet> mal...@macatawa.org writes: >I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of >VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different >interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! Even more confusing is using ToV on retainers and allies. The ferryman can only take agg damage but ToV isn't damage. Nevermind that the ferryman doesn't have vitae. One ToV and the ferryman is toast. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Daniel Hoffman wrote: > >I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of > >VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different > >interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! > > Even more confusing is using ToV on retainers and allies. The ferryman can > only take agg damage but ToV isn't damage. Nevermind that the ferryman > doesn't have vitae. One ToV and the ferryman is toast. I actually meant Taste of Vitae, not Theft of Vitae. > >Sorry, it's just that I hate not being able to play with a good card > >because whenever it comes out, it starts arguments. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Daniel Hoffman (dhof...@cris.com) wrote: : In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960610171502.5965A-100000@freenet> mal...@macatawa.org writes: : >I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of : >VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different : >interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! : Even more confusing is using ToV on retainers and allies. The ferryman can : only take agg damage but ToV isn't damage. Nevermind that the ferryman : doesn't have vitae. One ToV and the ferryman is toast. I fail to see what is so confusing about Taste of Vitae as a card. Perhaps it is the V:TES version that is causing this, as I only have the original Jyhad version. It is played after the strike resolution part of a combat round, once each vampire has taken damage. The amount of damage taken by the opposing vampire is added to the blood pool of the vampire using this card. Note also that Taste of Vitae can only be used upon another vampire, not allies and retainers. Even if the above situation with the ferryman was possible, you still have to damage the ferryman in combat before you would have gotten any use with Taste of Vitae. Perhaps someone could post the description of the V:TES version of the card to help me understand the problem. Here is the Jyhad version Taste of Vitae (Combat card) This vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat by the opposing vampire. Play after the strike resolution. Not usable by a vampire going into torpor. : >Sorry, it's just that I hate not being able to play with a good card : >because whenever it comes out, it starts arguments. Hope that helps. I quite like the card, and it almost always finds it's way into my decks. Chris, lover of Tremere and Thaumaturgy

yu12...@yorku.ca (Julianne Jolie) writes: >Daniel Hoffman (dhof...@cris.com) wrote: >: In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960610171502.5965A-100000@freenet> mal...@macatawa.org writes: >: >I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of >: >VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different >: >interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! >: Even more confusing is using ToV on retainers and allies. The ferryman can >: only take agg damage but ToV isn't damage. Nevermind that the ferryman >: doesn't have vitae. One ToV and the ferryman is toast. >I fail to see what is so confusing about Taste of Vitae as a card. >Perhaps it is the V:TES version that is causing this, as I only have the >original Jyhad version. It is played after the strike resolution part of >a combat round, once each vampire has taken damage. The amount of damage >taken by the opposing vampire is added to the blood pool of the vampire >using this card. Note also that Taste of Vitae can only be used upon >another vampire, not allies and retainers. Even if the above situation >with the ferryman was possible, you still have to damage the ferryman in >combat before you would have gotten any use with Taste of Vitae. Perhaps >someone could post the description of the V:TES version of the card to >help me understand the problem. The ally/retainer question came up due to a slight misunderstanding of Taste and Theft of Vitae, both abbreviated ToV. >Here is the Jyhad version >Taste of Vitae (Combat card) >This vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat >by the opposing vampire. Play after the strike resolution. Not usable by >a vampire going into torpor. Problems: What does "lost" mean? Only blood lost to heal damage? (thankfully now the official version). What about blood spent on disciplines? (No) What about stolen blood? (No) What about the opposing minion's zip gun? (Yes) What about damage in excess of the minion's ability to heal (No). The current positions on all of these are logical, but there have been other rulings in the past. You can still (officially) do things with Taste that don't make much sense. Taste at range is really stretching it. Tasting multiple times is really silly, e.g.: Dimple, with 2 blood, Bum's Rushes Ulugh Beg, with 1 blood, intending to Torporize and Amaranth ( who cares if he's burnt). He puts out Trap to secure torpor. He biffs Ulugh for 1, Ulugh biffs him for 1. Things look bad for Ulugh, but - Ulugh now plays TEN Taste of Vitae. Ulugh now has 10 blood. Technically, this is legal. But imagine the arguments from a stunt like that! Obviously this is an exaggeration, but I have seen someone try to Taste 3 times in a round. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

CurtAdams (curt...@aol.com) wrote: : yu12...@yorku.ca (Julianne Jolie) writes: : >Daniel Hoffman (dhof...@cris.com) wrote: : >: In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960610171502.5965A-100000@freenet> : mal...@macatawa.org writes: : >: >I say WOTC should put this card out of print in the next edition of : >: >VtES. It's too dang confusing. Different people have different : >: >interpretations, different authorities have different rulings...AARGH! : >: Even more confusing is using ToV on retainers and allies. The ferryman : can : >: only take agg damage but ToV isn't damage. Nevermind that the ferryman : >: doesn't have vitae. One ToV and the ferryman is toast. : >I fail to see what is so confusing about Taste of Vitae as a card. : >Perhaps it is the V:TES version that is causing this, as I only have the : >original Jyhad version. It is played after the strike resolution part of : >a combat round, once each vampire has taken damage. The amount of damage : >taken by the opposing vampire is added to the blood pool of the vampire : >using this card. Note also that Taste of Vitae can only be used upon : >another vampire, not allies and retainers. Even if the above situation : >with the ferryman was possible, you still have to damage the ferryman in : >combat before you would have gotten any use with Taste of Vitae. Perhaps : >someone could post the description of the V:TES version of the card to : >help me understand the problem. : The ally/retainer question came up due to a slight misunderstanding of : Taste and Theft of Vitae, both abbreviated ToV. I should have caught that one ... sorry if I added to the confusion. : >Here is the Jyhad version : >Taste of Vitae (Combat card) : >This vampire gains all the blood lost during the current round of combat : >by the opposing vampire. Play after the strike resolution. Not usable : by : >a vampire going into torpor. : Problems: : What does "lost" mean? Only blood lost to heal damage? (thankfully now : the official version). What about blood spent on disciplines? (No) What : about stolen blood? (No) What about the opposing minion's zip gun? (Yes) : What about damage in excess of the minion's ability to heal (No). : The current positions on all of these are logical, but there have been : other rulings in the past. I see. I haven't seen any of the previous rulings. And I can sort of see how things could get confusing. My friends and I are casual players, so we'd be lucky if we have one Taste of Vitae each, but I'm sure we have played it as the above. : You can still (officially) do things with Taste that don't make much : sense. Taste at range is really stretching it. Tasting multiple times is : really silly, e.g.: : Dimple, with 2 blood, Bum's Rushes Ulugh Beg, with 1 blood, intending to : Torporize and Amaranth ( who cares if he's burnt). He puts out Trap to : secure torpor. He biffs Ulugh for 1, Ulugh biffs him for 1. Things look : bad for Ulugh, but - : Ulugh now plays TEN Taste of Vitae. Ulugh now has 10 blood. : Technically, this is legal. But imagine the arguments from a stunt like : that! Obviously this is an exaggeration, but I have seen someone try to : Taste 3 times in a round. : Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) I personally detest when the rules are used to break the spirit of the game. It is quite obvious (at least to me) that this card indicates that your vamp is sucking up the blood from the opposing vamp. Using more than one Taste is just like trying to use it on damage in excess of the vamps blood. You can't drink what isn't there. I'm hoping we never come across this kind of card playing, or it'll turn us off as we have been from Magic. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Chris, wanting more and more Tremere