[LSJ] Card Questions

hi, 1) If a vampire plays Spying Mission, can he also burn one that he already has (from a previous bleed) to increase the bleed amount? 2) Can a vampire use fractured armament at superior if his opponent has no equipment? 3) Can a vampire use in general strike that destroy equipment (without any other damaging effect) if his opponent has no equipment? 4) If yes this is true for other similar strikes (Taste of Vitae against empty vampires, use Wooden Stake against allies, etc.)? 5) Can a vampire play a WwEF or Forced Awakening and not attempt to block? 6) Can a vampire play Psyche! or TP Tracking to restart a combat "ended" with obedience? 7) Can a cardinal be the recepient of another Cardinal Benediction? 8) If a player already controls a justicar, can he call the Justicar vote of the same clan for another of his vampires? 9) An action or action modifier cancelled by Direct Intervention can be played again? Sorry for posting a ton of questions, but i'd like official confirmation to my decisions. Thanks, The Prince of Thessaloniki

Uriel wrote: || hi, hi you ;) || 1) If a vampire plays Spying Mission, can he also burn one that he || already has (from a previous bleed) to increase the bleed amount? no, if a vampire plays Spying mission when a bleed is not blocked, he doesn't remove pool, thus cannot increase the bleed. Put the second spying mission on him instead, and the next time he bleeds the same methuselah, the 2 spying mission will trigger for a +4 bleed. (except if he plays a third SM which will stack on the previous ones) || 2) Can a vampire use fractured armament at superior if his opponent || has no equipment? No: No valid target. you can't play Drawing out the beast against an ally for parallel. || 3) Can a vampire use in general strike that destroy equipment || (without any other damaging effect) if his opponent has no || equipment? No : no valid target. || 4) If yes this is true for other similar strikes (Taste of Vitae || against empty vampires, use Wooden Stake against allies, etc.)? Taste of vitae cannot be used in combat with an ally per card text ("opposing vampire") but the Stake can be used even against an ally : Jaroslev can kill a garou with a +2 blow from a stake -but the other go -to-torpor effect will only apply to a vampire. || 5) Can a vampire play a WwEF or Forced Awakening and not attempt to || block? of course =D else how would you wake&deflect ? not that even rat's warning and guard dogs allow you not to block. only 2nd Trad, Eternal vigilance, sup Read the winds, sup Speak with Spirits and Special Report commits you to block when you play them. || 6) Can a vampire play Psyche! or TP Tracking to restart a combat || "ended" with obedience? No, since the combat is never entered. || 7) Can a cardinal be the recepient of another Cardinal Benediction? Yes. (i suppose for the purpose of voter cap) || 8) If a player already controls a justicar, can he call the || Justicar vote of the same clan for another of his vampires? yes but the title is unique and will contest, and the guy will lose 3 votes for one entire turn and a blood on one of his vampires. || 9) An action or action modifier cancelled by Direct Intervention || can be played again? No. You can't play the same. Another similar may be played though. || Sorry for posting a ton of questions, but i'd like official || confirmation to my decisions. it's not official but it's quite accurate i supose ;) || Thanks, || The Prince of Thessaloniki kiss the greek babes for me =°

reyda wrote: > Uriel wrote: > || 1) If a vampire plays Spying Mission, can he also burn one that he > || already has (from a previous bleed) to increase the bleed amount? > > no, if a vampire plays Spying mission when a bleed is not blocked, he > doesn't remove pool, thus cannot increase the bleed. Put the second spying > mission on him instead, and the next time he bleeds the same methuselah, the > 2 spying mission will trigger for a +4 bleed. (except if he plays a third SM > which will stack on the previous ones) Correct. > || 2) Can a vampire use fractured armament at superior if his opponent > || has no equipment? > > No: No valid target. you can't play Drawing out the beast against an ally > for parallel. Correct. > || 3) Can a vampire use in general strike that destroy equipment > || (without any other damaging effect) if his opponent has no > || equipment? > > No : no valid target. Correct. > || 4) If yes this is true for other similar strikes (Taste of Vitae > || against empty vampires, use Wooden Stake against allies, etc.)? > > Taste of vitae cannot be used in combat with an ally per card text > ("opposing vampire") > but the Stake can be used even against an ally : Jaroslev can kill a garou > with a +2 blow from a stake -but the other go -to-torpor effect will only > apply to a vampire. Correct. > || 5) Can a vampire play a WwEF or Forced Awakening and not attempt to > || block? > > of course =D else how would you wake&deflect ? [note] that even rat's warning > and guard dogs allow you not to block. Correct. > only 2nd Trad, Eternal vigilance, sup Read the winds, sup Speak with Spirits > and Special Report commits you to block when you play them. > || 6) Can a vampire play Psyche! or TP Tracking to restart a combat > || "ended" with obedience? > > No, since the combat is never entered. Correct. Obedience cancels combat, it doesn't "end" combat. > || 7) Can a cardinal be the recepient of another Cardinal Benediction? > > Yes. (i suppose for the purpose of voter cap) Correct. > || 8) If a player already controls a justicar, can he call the > || Justicar vote of the same clan for another of his vampires? > > yes but the title is unique and will contest, and the guy will lose 3 votes > for one entire turn and a blood on one of his vampires. He will "lose" the 3 votes for the duration of the contest. Typically, that will be two turns. Turn 1: Referendum to become Justicar. Contest begins. Turn 2: One vampire pays one blood to contest. The other yields. Turn 3: The one who paid to contest "gains" the title now that all others have yielded. > > || 9) An action or action modifier cancelled by Direct Intervention > || can be played again? > > No. You can't play the same. Another similar may be played though. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3DC7CAFF...@white-wolf.com... > reyda wrote: > > Uriel wrote: > > || 1) If a vampire plays Spying Mission, can he also burn one that he > > || already has (from a previous bleed) to increase the bleed amount? > > > > no, if a vampire plays Spying mission when a bleed is not blocked, he > > doesn't remove pool, thus cannot increase the bleed. Put the second spying > > mission on him instead, and the next time he bleeds the same methuselah, the > > 2 spying mission will trigger for a +4 bleed. (except if he plays a third SM > > which will stack on the previous ones) > > Correct. Wait a minute. I thought you HAD to burn the spying mission the next time you successfully bled. This is current card text for the superior, right? "[OBF] Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed." <snip>

[ quoted text not captured ] If you play the Spying Mission action modifier, then the bleed is not successful. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3DC8132B...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Now I'm confused. I guess its just an issue of ordering, but I don't see how this can be justified by card text. Why doesn't the first Spying Mission automatically burn at the point where the bleed is successful and before another spying mission can be played? The criteria for burning the card is met and the burning is mandatory, so I don't understand why there is another window of opportunity here that will keep the initial Spying Mission in play long enough to play another Spying Mission at superior. The bleed only becomes unsuccessful after the subsequent Spying Mission has been played.

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3DC7CAFF...@white-wolf.com... > reyda wrote: > > Uriel wrote: > > || 9) An action or action modifier cancelled by Direct Intervention > > || can be played again? > > > > No. You can't play the same. Another similar may be played though. > > Correct. This is true for action modifiers, but not for actions. (It's also true for reactions.) An action hasn't gotten to the point where No Repeat Actions kicks in, if Direct Intervention is played on the action card. Action modifiers and reactions are different because the rulebook specifies that a minion may only play one copy of an action modifier or reaction (by name) during an action, and makes no exception for the action mod/reaction being canceled. Josh acting up

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DC7CAFF...@white-wolf.com>... > reyda wrote: > > Uriel wrote: > > || 1) If a vampire plays Spying Mission, can he also burn one that he > > || already has (from a previous bleed) to increase the bleed amount? > > > > no, if a vampire plays Spying mission when a bleed is not blocked, he > > doesn't remove pool, thus cannot increase the bleed. Put the second spying > > mission on him instead, and the next time he bleeds the same methuselah, > > the > > 2 spying mission will trigger for a +4 bleed. (except if he plays a third > > SM > > which will stack on the previous ones) > > Correct. > Actually, I meant if you can play a second spying mission for stealth, but i guess the answer is obvious. > > || 5) Can a vampire play a WwEF or Forced Awakening and not attempt to > > || block? > > > > of course =D else how would you wake&deflect ? [note] that even rat's > > warning > > and guard dogs allow you not to block. > > Correct. > Don't get me wrong, as a Prince from time to time i have to confirm the explanations I give to players. > > || 8) If a player already controls a justicar, can he call the > > || Justicar vote of the same clan for another of his vampires? > > > > yes but the title is unique and will contest, and the guy will lose 3 votes > > for one entire turn and a blood on one of his vampires. > > He will "lose" the 3 votes for the duration of the contest. Typically, > that will be two turns. > > Turn 1: Referendum to become Justicar. Contest begins. > Turn 2: One vampire pays one blood to contest. The other yields. > Turn 3: The one who paid to contest "gains" the title now that all > others have yielded. > What about the ruling that prohibits a player from contesting his permanents? Thanks for the help guys, Aris

On 5 Nov 2002 16:16:32 -0800, galama...@hotmail.com (Uriel) wrote: >> > || 8) If a player already controls a justicar, can he call the >> > || Justicar vote of the same clan for another of his vampires? >> > yes but the title is unique and will contest, and the guy will lose 3 votes >> > for one entire turn and a blood on one of his vampires. >> He will "lose" the 3 votes for the duration of the contest. Typically, >> that will be two turns. >> Turn 1: Referendum to become Justicar. Contest begins. >> Turn 2: One vampire pays one blood to contest. The other yields. >> Turn 3: The one who paid to contest "gains" the title now that all >> others have yielded. >What about the ruling that prohibits a player from contesting his >permanents? No such rule. The rule is that you can not contest your own "cards". Titles are not "cards" and you may contest them with yourself. http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/developerchat082002.html Section 4.1 of the online rulebook "you cannot contest cards with yourself" Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:14:38 GMT, thela...@hotmail.com (The Lasombra) wrote: >The rule is that you can not contest your own "cards". >Titles are not "cards" and you may contest them with yourself. >http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/developerchat082002.html Gotta love that clipboard feature. An item sitting around in memory for a hour or so just goes and adds itself to my message instead of the location of the online rulebook, which is actually here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ [ quoted text not captured ]

Jon Stahler wrote: ||| If you play the Spying Mission action modifier, then the bleed is ||| not successful. ||| || || Now I'm confused. I guess its just an issue of ordering, but I || don't see how this can be justified by card text. Why doesn't the || first Spying Mission automatically burn at the point where the || bleed is successful and before another spying mission can be || played? Because, as 2pac said, that's the just the way it is ! before the bleed resolves, there is a window when you can play, say, Major boon, Life boon or Telepathic counter. A lot of things can occur before a bleed is resolved. A non blocked bleed action does not become burnt pool right away.

Joshua Duffin wrote: || "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message || news:3DC7CAFF...@white-wolf.com... ||| reyda wrote: |||| Uriel wrote: || |||||| 9) An action or action modifier cancelled by Direct |||||| Intervention can be played again? |||| |||| No. You can't play the same. Another similar may be played |||| though. ||| ||| Correct. || || This is true for action modifiers, but not for actions. yeah , yeah, that's true. Action cards were never gone to a resolution step in the first place,so the NRA doesn't kick in. Just misread reaction instead of action =)

thela...@hotmail.com (The Lasombra) wrote in message news:<ouKdnW7Ftv3...@News.GigaNews.Com>... [ quoted text not captured ] That was what I meant. But, after hours after hours running demos this month and giving to newbies references to the rules, I got sick of it. Anyway back to the subject, if you have already passed a Justicar, you can not call for another one of the same clan? > > Carpe noctem. > > Lasombra > > http://www.TheLasombra.com And by the way, your site is very helpful. When Sabbat War was published, your site was the main reason to begin again playing the game. But update the decks with either Camarilla versions or even with new decks. Aris, Prince of Thessaloniki

Uriel wrote: > Anyway back to the subject, if you have already passed a Justicar, you > can not call for another one of the same clan? You can. [ quoted text not captured ]

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3dc87232$0$6325$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ] No, a non-blocked bleed action doesn't equate to lost pool automatically. But a successful bleed requires that you be at the stage where pool burning would occur, hence why I'm having problems with SM right now. I don't MIND it being that way...I would just like to understand why it is ruled as such. Its not intuitive to me why this card should stack.

"Jon Stahler" <sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:5Tay9.12444$US2.1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu... [re stacking superior Spying Missions] > No, a non-blocked bleed action doesn't equate to lost pool automatically. > But a successful bleed requires that you be at the stage where pool burning > would occur, hence why I'm having problems with SM right now. I don't MIND > it being that way...I would just like to understand why it is ruled as such. > Its not intuitive to me why this card should stack. I believe the reasoning is this: "Only usable when a bleed is successful. Instead of removing pool from the Methuselah you're bleeding, put this card on the acting vampire." So, you play a superior Spying Mission right before the Methuselah being bled would lose pool. But the superior SM "goes off" when pool is actually being lost due to a bleed. So if you play a new superior SM *instead of* removing pool, the original superior SM won't "trigger". Josh if you want to be a spy like me