Questions about the game from a new player.

Hello, I have some questions about the game mechanics and rules i don't seem to understand, i hope someone here could help me out because i can't seem to find help anywhere else. I've got a few questions which follows: Action modifier cards: will using them Tap a minion? Are they a one turn card which gets burned after using or are they permanent to the assigned minion? The whole inactive region was also a little confusing, how much blood counts does it cost to bring a vampire from your crypt? how much does it cost to bring a vampire into the active region and how much does it cost to move him back to the inactive region? Can you move blood counts from an active vampire to an inactive vampire and have that vampire 'Hunt' to regain blood? Also about Torpor, when a vampire is there how does he regain blood? does it simply increase every turn? And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? That's it for now, i'm sure i have more questions but i can't seem to remember them now. Thanks.

cool....@gmail.com wrote: > Hello, > I have some questions about the game mechanics and rules i don't seem > to understand, i hope someone here could help me out because i can't > seem to find help anywhere else. > I've got a few questions which follows: > > Action modifier cards: will using them Tap a minion? No. Things that tap a minion: Attempting an action [6.2.1]. Blocking successfully [6.2.3]. Using the Slave ability [11]. Explicit card text. That's all. > Are they a one turn card which gets burned after using or are they > permanent to the assigned minion? One-use. Played to the ash heap. Unless card text explicitly says otherwise. > The whole inactive region was also a little confusing, how much blood > counts does it cost to bring a vampire from your crypt? how much does Uh-oh. "Inactive region" is a term that hasn't been used in many years -- indicating you're probably using a very out-of-date rulebook. Check the current rulebook here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ To move a card from your crypt to your uncontrolled region, it costs 1 pool and 4 transfers. See http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec7 > it cost to bring a vampire into the active region and how much does it > cost to move him back to the inactive region? To move a vampire from your uncontrolled region, it costs an amount of pool (paid one at a time via the use of transfers during one or more influence phases) equal to the vampire's capacity. There is no way to move a vampire back to the uncontrolled region (other than explicit card text to do so). > Can you move blood counts from an active vampire to an inactive > vampire and have that vampire 'Hunt' to regain blood? You cannot move blood from a ready vampire to anywhere (other than moving it to the blood bank, that is: "burning" it, to pay blood cost or handle damage), unless explicit card text tells you to. > Also about Torpor, when a vampire is there how does he regain blood? He doesn't (unless explicit card text says to). If he's empty, then he'll have to be rescued -- he'll never have enough blood to leave torpor by himself. > does it simply increase every turn? No. > And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them > payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? You, the Methuselah, do not have blood -- you have pool. The card's pool cost is paid from your pool. The card's blood cost is paid from the vampire's blood. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_1

cool....@gmail.com wrote: > Hello, > I have some questions about the game mechanics and rules i don't seem > to understand, i hope someone here could help me out because i can't > seem to find help anywhere else. > I've got a few questions which follows: > Action modifier cards: will using them Tap a minion? Most action modifier cards are played by a minion who is already tapped, since you tap them to perform the action. But action modifiers do not inherently tap a minion. For example, if an untapped minion plays a superior Cloak the Gathering on another minion's action, the Cloaker won't tap. > Are they a one turn card which gets burned after using or are they > permanent to the assigned minion? One time. > The whole inactive region was also a little confusing, how much blood > counts does it cost to bring a vampire from your crypt? During your influence phase, you have 4 Transfers. They are like a special type of action. It costs 4 Transfers, and one pool, to draw a vampire from your crypt into the uncontrolled region. > how much does > it cost to bring a vampire into the active region? It costs 1 transfer to move a blood from your pool to an uncontrolled vampire. If the vampire has enough blood counters on him at the end of your influence phase, then the vampire comes out into the ready region. > and how much does it > cost to move him back to the inactive region? Why would you want to do that? It is usually an offensive action (like the political action "Banishment") which would move a vampire back into the uncontrolled region. > Can you move blood counts from an active vampire to an inactive > vampire and have that vampire 'Hunt' to regain blood? You can't move blood from one vampire to another vampire without some sort of explicit effect on a card (like Nikolaus Vermeulen or Saulot's abilities). > Also about Torpor, when a vampire is there how does he regain blood? He doesn't, except if a card effect would allow it (like the Regeneration action). > does it simply increase every turn? No. > And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them > payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? If there is a blood drop in the middle-left side of the card, or a red blood drop on the bottom left (depending on the layout), then the vampire pays the blood cost. If there is a black blood drop in the bottom left, or a Skull-Diamond, then you pay the cost from your own pool. I hope this helps..

On 3 apr, 14:01, cool.ch...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello, > I have some questions about the game mechanics and rules i don't seem > to understand, i hope someone here could help me out because i can't > seem to find help anywhere else. > I've got a few questions which follows: > > Action modifier cards: will using them Tap a minion? No. Unless the card says so. example: Hidden lurker > Are they a one turn card which gets burned after using or are they > permanent to the assigned minion? No they are burned. Unless the card says so like "spying Mission" stays in play. > The whole inactive region was also a little confusing, how much blood > counts does it cost to bring a vampire from your crypt? how much does > it cost to bring a vampire into the active region and how much does it > cost to move him back to the inactive region? Basicly each transfer phase gives you 4 transfers for that phase. Transfers can be used as followed. 1 transfer: to move 1 blood from your pool to an inactive vampire 2 transfers: to move 1 blood from an inactive vampire to your pool 4 transfers: pay 1 pool to put the top vampire of your crypt to your inactive region. If (this is the cost) a vampire in your inactive region has blood equal (or more, but this is not advisable) to his capacity (white number in the lower right corner) at the end of your transfer phase, that vampire is turned face up to the active region. A vampire of capacity 8 will cost you 8 pool and 8 transfers, so it needs 2 turns to be "transfer out" Once a vampire is active it cannot be put back to your inactive region. > Can you move blood counts from an active vampire to an inactive > vampire and have that vampire 'Hunt' to regain blood? Some special abilities and cards allow you to put blood from active vampires and even the bloodbank on uncontrolled vampires. A vampire can normally not do that. > Also about Torpor, when a vampire is there how does he regain blood? > does it simply increase every turn? A vampire in torpor does not and can not gain blood (except for some specific card). A vampire needs to be ready in order to be able to hunt. Torpor = not ready. So first you have to rescue the vampire, before it can hunt. > And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them > payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? New cards have a RED blood drop for blood cost and a skull in a coffin for pool cost. Older cards have a BLACK blood drop for blood in the centre left for blood cost and a BLACK blood drop in the lower left corner for pool cost. > That's it for now, i'm sure i have more questions but i can't seem to > remember them now. > > Thanks. I hope it helps a little, Greetings, Oortje

cool.cheats sent this accidentally as "reply-by-email", so I am reposting it here: On Apr 3, 5:13 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Uh-oh. "Inactive region" is a term that hasn't been used in many years -- > indicating you're probably using a very out-of-date rulebook. You are correct, I am using the first edition card set 'JYHAD' which is pretty much out dated. I have thus far refrained from using the guide on white-wolf's website due to it referring to a different generation of cards. On Apr 3, 5:21 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > It costs 1 transfer to move a blood from your pool to an uncontrolled vampire. > If the vampire has enough blood counters on him at the end of your influence > phase, then the vampire comes out into the ready region. Do you mean that it would take you more than one turn to bring up a vampire who's cost is high? > > And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them > > payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? > > If there is a blood drop in the middle-left side of the card, or a red > blood drop on the bottom left (depending on the layout), then the vampire > pays the blood cost. I assume this applies to all types of cards unless they have the 'Blood Drop' illustration painted on the bottom left side of the card. So this means that the card also effects the vampire's health, which is the number of blood counts he has on the card. So, in combat, a card that costs 4 blood would make that card very expensive (For example the 'Body of Sun' card, which costs 4 to preform and deals an equal damage of 1 (in ranged) or 3 (in melee) to both combatants), Is this assumption true? > I hope this helps.. It has helped a lot, Thanks you both for your help! I also have more questions about blocking and reaction cards, I'm sorry if these questions seem somewhat "too green" but the rulebook was a little hard for me to understand. About blocking and reaction cards: Reaction cards, when do you apply them? do you apply them whenever you want to block another Methuselah's move even if it's not your turn? and i assume these are one use cards as well? (which gets burned after usage) Also about blocking, can you use any vampire at your disposal to block another vampire? or does the vampire have to be untapped? As i understand it you can't block another vampire unless you have an 'Intercept' of above 0 (that is, equal to the other vampire's 'Stealth' or above it) and cannot block actions by default, which also means that since 'Bleed' has a default 'Stealth' of 1 it cannot be blocked. Is this right? Thanks again.

Jozxyqk wrote: > cool.cheats sent this accidentally as "reply-by-email", so I am reposting it > here: > > On Apr 3, 5:13 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Uh-oh. "Inactive region" is a term that hasn't been used in many years -- >> indicating you're probably using a very out-of-date rulebook. > > You are correct, I am using the first edition card set 'JYHAD' which > is pretty much out dated. > I have thus far refrained from using the guide on white-wolf's website > due to it referring to a different generation of cards. The old rulebooks aren't as clear as the new one, so you should at least try the new rulebook. > On Apr 3, 5:21 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >> It costs 1 transfer to move a blood from your pool to an uncontrolled vampire. >> If the vampire has enough blood counters on him at the end of your influence >> phase, then the vampire comes out into the ready region. > > Do you mean that it would take you more than one turn to bring up a > vampire who's cost is high? Yes. You get only 4 transfers each turn (and the first three players gets fewer on their first turns -- 1, 2, and 3, respectively). >>> And a general question about using cards. is the blood cost on them >>> payed by you blood counts or by the own vampire's assigned blood? >> If there is a blood drop in the middle-left side of the card, or a red >> blood drop on the bottom left (depending on the layout), then the vampire >> pays the blood cost. > > I assume this applies to all types of cards unless they have the > 'Blood Drop' illustration painted on the bottom left side of the card. The old Jyhad cards used blood drops for both pool and blood costs. Generally, the black numbers in a white drop meant blood cost. The white numbers in a black drop meant pool cost. But at least one card had a misprint. The position of the drop is always correct, however -- at the bottom means pool, in the middle of the left side means blood. > So this means that the card also effects the vampire's health, which > is the number of blood counts he has on the card. Yes. > So, in combat, a card that costs 4 blood would make that card very > expensive (For example the 'Body of Sun' card, which costs 4 to > preform and deals an equal damage of 1 (in ranged) or 3 (in melee) to > both combatants), Is this assumption true? Yes. >> I hope this helps.. > > It has helped a lot, Thanks you both for your help! > > I also have more questions about blocking and reaction cards, I'm > sorry if these questions seem somewhat "too green" but the rulebook > was a little hard for me to understand. The old Jyhad rulebook had that effect on a lot of players. Hopefully the new one is clearer. > About blocking and reaction cards: > Reaction cards, when do you apply them? do you apply them whenever you > want to block another Methuselah's move even if it's not your turn? Yes. Reaction cards are played when another player is acting. > and i assume these are one use cards as well? (which gets burned after > usage) Correct. > Also about blocking, can you use any vampire at your disposal to block > another vampire? or does the vampire have to be untapped? Only untapped vampires can attempt to block (unless card text says otherwise). Likewise, only untapped vampires can play reaction cards. > As i understand it you can't block another vampire unless you have an > 'Intercept' of above 0 (that is, equal to the other vampire's > 'Stealth' or above it) and cannot block actions by default, which also > means that since 'Bleed' has a default 'Stealth' of 1 it cannot be > blocked. > Is this right? No. You've got the intercept vs. stealth part right, but not the default. The default stealth of a bleed is zero, not 1. So a minion with 0 intercept can block. Hunting, equipping, recruiting allies, employing retainers, and calling political actions all have a default of 1 stealth. But bleeding has a default of zero. Other actions (from action cards) have a default of 0 unless the card text says otherwise.

Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions. The game has now become much clearer and easier to understand. If I'll have any more questions (which I'm sure i will) i'll be sure to drop by again. Thanks again!

[ quoted text not captured ] Where do you live/play? If you're interested in learning more, you should try and contact a local Prince or regular playgroup, if one exists near you.. they'd be more than happy to demonstrate how the game is played for you. And don't be intimidated by experience or card collections; most cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing to teach new players as well.

On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I'm afraid that where i play there aren't many V:TES or even CCG players for that matter. Me and two other friends decided that we'd want to try out a CCG and decided V:TES to be the game. Out here you could mostly find Magic players but that's about it.

On Apr 3, 7:55 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Hey guys, I've got a few more questions about the game Aggravated damage: How does this work exactly? as i get it the vampire is burned if inflicted aggravated damage twice in the same combat? (not in the same round put possible) And also a fairly simple question. As i understand you need an untapped minion to preform a block, but if you succeed in blocking and get out of combat, does the minion stay tapped in the next round? Thanks.

On Apr 8, 12:45 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> [ quoted text not captured ] > Thanks.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Aggravated Damage: The first point of agg damage your vampire takes (so damage that is not prevented via Fortitude, for example) sends your vampire to torpor during the strike resolution phase. If only one point of agg damage is taken, the vampire goes to torpor with no loss of blood. For each additional point of agg damage a vampire takes, it must burn a blood, the same as regular damage. If the vampire is unable to burn the blood, then that vampire "burns" and is sent to the ash heap. Also, it's worth noting that normal (non agg) damage is resolved before agg damage. It is also worth noting that vampires burnt in this way does not cause a blood hunt to be called, as long as the vampire burns from sheer damage. Blocking: You are correct that you need an untaped minion to block (or play most reaction cards for that matter) You can play cards that allow you to block or play reaction cards "as if untapped" such as wake with evenings freshness, forced awakening and On the Qui Vive in order to allow your tapped minon to block the action in question. As far as "getting out of combat", I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you mean "My vampire survived the combat" then it unaps in your round, same as all of your other cards in play, at the beginning of your untap phase. The only thing that can prevent this is having a card used against you ( such as a flash grenade) which specificly prohibits you from untapping. If you mean "get out of combat" by means of say, majesty at superior, your vampire untaps as per the normal text of the card and is quite free to attempt to block another action as the vampire is now untapped. Hope that helps some Sutekh_23

On 7 Apr 2007 07:45:12 -0700, "cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> wrote: >Hey guys, >I've got a few more questions about the game Ok. >Aggravated damage: >How does this work exactly? See section 3.2 of the FAQ. http://www.thelasombra.com/vtes_faq.htm 3.2. How does aggravated damage work? To burn a ready vampire with X blood, you must inflict X+2 damage, one of which must be aggravated. Here's how that works: * A vampire burns 1 blood to "heal" each point of normal damage dealt to it. Note that "healing" damage is different from "preventing" damage. * A vampire is "wounded" if it has unhealed damage, is in torpor, or is going to torpor. * A vampire which cannot heal damage goes to torpor. * A vampire cannot heal aggravated damage done to it. * For each point of aggravated damage done to a wounded vampire, that vampire must burn one blood to prevent destruction. * A vampire which cannot prevent destruction is burned. See also 6.4.6 of the online rulebook. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ Some damage is described as aggravated damage, such as damage from fire or sunlight or from the claws or fangs of some other immortal creatures, including some vampires. Aggravated damage differs from normal damage in two ways: Aggravated damage cannot be healed, and aggravated damage can burn a vampire if that vampire is already wounded. Aggravated damage is damage that a vampire cannot heal. Since it cannot be healed, the vampire doesn't burn any blood to heal it, but instead becomes wounded (unless the damage is prevented, of course). Aggravated damage done to a wounded vampire can burn the vampire outright. A wounded vampire is one that has taken damage that he failed to heal or one that is in torpor or on his way to torpor. For each point of aggravated damage that is successfully inflicted on a wounded vampire, he must burn a blood to prevent his destruction. If he doesn't have enough blood, he is burned. Destruction by this method does not constitute diablerie (see Diablerie, sec. 6.5.5). If both regular damage and aggravated damage are successfully inflicted on a vampire at the same time, the regular damage is handled first. This only applies to unprevented damage; damage prevention effects can be used to prevent the aggravated damage before the normal damage, if the player chooses. If a vampire is wounded, he goes to torpor after all the damage is handled (see Torpor, sec. 6.5). If aggravated damage burns him, he goes directly to the ash heap. He doesn’t go through torpor first. >as i get it the vampire is burned if >inflicted aggravated damage twice in the same combat? (not in the same >round put possible) In general, no. See specifics above. >And also a fairly simple question. >As i understand you need an untapped minion to preform a block, but if >you succeed in blocking and get out of combat, does the minion stay >tapped in the next round? No. See section 4 of the online rulebook. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ At the beginning of your untap phase, you must untap all of your cards. Any cards or effects that require or allow you to do something during your untap phase take effect after you have untapped your cards. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

In message <1175959704.5...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sutekh_23 <bec...@aapt.net.au> writes: >Aggravated Damage: > >The first point of agg damage your vampire takes (so damage that is >not prevented via Fortitude, for example) sends your vampire to torpor >during the strike resolution phase. This is misleading. If the agg damage is taken at a different point in combat (for example, Weather Control during a Dawn Operation), the vampire will go to torpor during the resolution of that damage, assuming it is unprevented etc. > If only one point of agg damage is >taken, the vampire goes to torpor with no loss of blood. For each >additional point of agg damage a vampire takes, it must burn a blood, >the same as regular damage. This ("the same as regular damage") is also misleading. The vampire burns blood to prevent destruction once they are wounded. They heal damage when unwounded. The difference is important for a small number of cards. For example: - Regenerative Blood will allow an unwounded vampire to burn 1 blood and heal 2 damage. It will not allow a vampire to burn 1 blood for 2 points of damage that will cause their destruction. - Sword of Nuln requires twice as much blood to heal, but not to prevent destruction. These two things are not the same. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

I'm still a little confused here. Just to clear things up a bit, i'm using the first edition deck. As i understand it a vampire goes to torpor once he has taken damage that he cannot pay for (via the bloodcounts that is). How exactly does aggravated damage come into play here?

On 8 Apr 2007 09:25:27 -0700, "cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> wrote: >I'm still a little confused here. >Just to clear things up a bit, i'm using the first edition deck. >As i understand it a vampire goes to torpor once he has taken damage >that he cannot pay for (via the bloodcounts that is). Correct. That is the primary (or most frequent) way that a vampire will enter torpor. >How exactly does aggravated damage come into play here? Aggravated damage is completely separate from this. A single point of aggravated damage will send a vampire to torpor, whether or not they have any blood counters left. Two points of aggravated damage taken with the vampire has no blood counters left will burn the vampire. If a vampire is going to torpor taking more damage then it has blood, and there is still a point of aggravated damage left to be handled, then that point of damage will burn the vampire. Aggravated damage is pretty rare in the Jyhad set. Body of Sun (R) Burst of Sunlight (R) Claws of the Dead (C) Dawn Operation (U) Dragon's Breath Rounds (U) Flamethrower (U) Ivory Bow (R) Sengir Dagger (R) Walk of Flame (U) Wolf Claws (C) You are most likely to run into Claws of the Dead and Wolf Claws, so you will only infrequently have to deal with more than 1 point of aggravated damage. Always completely resolve all of the non-aggravated damage first, if damage is coming from two sources at the same time. (i.e. Wolf Companion + hand strike) Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com/whatsnew.htm [ quoted text not captured ]

> Aggravated damage is completely separate from this. > > A single point of aggravated damage will send a vampire to torpor, > whether or not they have any blood counters left. > > Two points of aggravated damage taken with the vampire has no blood > counters left will burn the vampire. > > If a vampire is going to torpor taking more damage then it has blood, > and there is still a point of aggravated damage left to be handled, > then that point of damage will burn the vampire. > > Aggravated damage is pretty rare in the Jyhad set. > > Body of Sun (R) > Burst of Sunlight (R) > Claws of the Dead (C) > Dawn Operation (U) > Dragon's Breath Rounds (U) > Flamethrower (U) > Ivory Bow (R) > Sengir Dagger (R) > Walk of Flame (U) > Wolf Claws (C) That's a lot clearer. so basically it only takes one hit of aggravated damage to send the vampire to torpor and a two hits to burn him (only if the accumulated damage is greater than his health). Is this correct?

On 8 Apr 2007 10:03:52 -0700, "cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> wrote: >That's a lot clearer. >so basically it only takes one hit of aggravated damage to send the >vampire to torpor and a two hits to burn him (only if the accumulated >damage is greater than his health). >Is this correct? Almost. Two points of aggravated damage. Like Lucky Blow + Wolf Claws or Ritual Challenge + Claws of the Dead [ quoted text not captured ]

"cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> writes: [ quoted text not captured ] I once read an insanely elegant description of how aggravated damage works. It has three steps: 1) A point of normal damage makes your vampire burn a blood. If he can't burn a blood, he goes to torpor. 2) A point of aggravated damage makes your vampire go to torpor. If he can't go to torpor, he burns a blood. 3) If your vampire can't go to torpor and can't burn a blood, then a point of aggravated damage will burn him. (Clarification: "Can't go to torpor," because he's already going to torpor.) -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

On Apr 8, 12:22 pm, h...@iki.fi.remove.these.invalid (Janne Hägglund) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] That's a lot clearer, thanks Janne and Lasombra! I've got another question that me and my friends can't seem to get over of. Lets say you have a card that states something like: When in combat all Methuselahs may look at opponent's hand. (for example the 'Owl Companion' retainer card) What does that mean exactly? if I'm player X and am in combat with player Z, do me and player Y get to look at player Z's hand?

On Apr 8, 10:13 pm, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] > player Z, do me and player Y get to look at player Z's hand?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - That's correct. Remember, Methuselah = player, so if a card says some Methuselah has to show every other Methuselah her hand, that means that player has to show every other player the cards in her hand. In the case of Owl Companion, "open hand" means the Methuselah [controlling a minion which is in combat opposing a minion with an Owl Companion] must play with her hand face-up on the table so all the other players can see what's in her hand, including draws and redraws.

"cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> writes: > That's a lot clearer, thanks Janne and Lasombra! You're welcome. > I've got another question that me and my friends can't seem to get > over of. > Lets say you have a card that states something like: When in combat > all Methuselahs may look at opponent's hand. (for example the 'Owl > Companion' retainer card) > What does that mean exactly? if I'm player X and am in combat with > player Z, do me and player Y get to look at player Z's hand? Yes. The easiest way to implement "All may look at player Z's hand" or "player Z plays with open hand": make player Z lay the cards on his hand on the table, face up. Saves time. [ quoted text not captured ]

Hello everyone, I am now looking to buy cards from a newer edition On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >; most > cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing > to teachnewplayers as well. is that true? If i own decks from both the first edition and the third edition, will i be able to combine decks? Which cards are deemed banned after the first edition was printed? also, what are all these special editions? (for example the 'legacies of blood' series, are they the same cards or a unique line?) What kind of balance problems can i expect when combining decks? Thanks.

On Apr 23, 10:34 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello everyone, > I am now looking to buy cards from a newer edition > > On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > >; most > > cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing > > to teachnewplayers as well. > > is that true? > If i own decks from both the first edition and the third edition, will > i be able to combine decks? Yes. Cards from any and every set can be mixed freely as you like (and as your deck size permits.) The rulebook deck limits are: Minimum Crypt: 12. No maximum. Minimum Library: 40. Maximum: 40+10/player. Most groups prefer to play with the 'tournament rule' deck size: Library min 60, max 90. > Which cards are deemed banned after the first edition was printed? No card has been outright banned. A very short list of cards has been banned from tournament play: * Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES) * Kindred Restructure (V:TES) * Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns) * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) * Succubus Club (V:TES) * Any cards that are usable only when playing for ante, including: o Cunctator Motion (V:TES) o High Stakes (V:TES) o Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns) That's it. > also, what are all these special editions? (for example the 'legacies > of blood' series, are they the same cards or a unique line?) Different expansions add new library and crypt cards, including new disciplines and clans/bloodlines. The following sets are 'core sets' that are larger sets and include plenty of the more straightforward cards that you'd want in starting a collection: Jyhad/Vampire Sabbat Sabbat War Camarilla 3rd Edition Pretty much all of the starter decks focused on a single clan include a number of these generically useful cards; players can build solid decks by combining the contents of a couple of starter decks with a few appropriate boosters. It's also worth noting that the contents of all the starter decks after Jyhad/Vampire are not random but fixed - every Toreador starter from Camarilla contains the same set of cards. > What kind of balance problems can i expect when combining decks? Starter decks from different sets might not have much in common; for instance a Camarilla Malkavian starter has almost nothing in common with the Legacies of Blood Ishtarri starter - the vampires within are of different sects, different clans, and use different disciplines. So the non-generic library cards in each deck usually won't be playable by the crypt cards in the other, making it hard to build a coherent deck out of the two. It's generally much better to combine from decks that have some overlap - the same clan, sect, and/or some of the same disciplines. It's also worth making sure that the boosters that you acquire are from sets that contain a similar focus to the deck(s) you're building. For instance, a single Final Nights booster won't be of much use to you if all your cards are Jyhad-set - FN focuses on clans and sects and disciplines that you don't already have, so that one booster will mostly have cards you can't yet use without more of that set. > Thanks. -John Flournoy

On Apr 23, 11:34 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello everyone, > I am now looking to buy cards from a newer edition > > On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > >; most > > cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing > > to teachnewplayers as well. > > is that true? > If i own decks from both the first edition and the third edition, will > i be able to combine decks? There is a caveat: the grouping rule. Newer vampires (since Camarilla Edition) have a small white number printed on their lower left corner. Cards printed prior to Cam Ed are group 1 (if they are from Jyhad/ V:tES base set - i.e., have no expansion symbol) or group 2 (if they are from any other expansion). You are only allowed to use two consecutive groups when constructing your deck (i.e., groups 1 and 2 together, or groups 2 and 3 together, but not 1 and 3 together, and not 1, 2, and 3 together). Note that two players with different grouping pairs can still play against each other - the grouping rule only applies to deck construction. > Which cards are deemed banned after the first edition was printed? The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES) Kindred Restructure (V:TES) Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns) The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) Succubus Club (V:TES) Any cards that are usable only when playing for ante, including: Cunctator Motion (V:TES) High Stakes (V:TES) Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns) > also, what are all these special editions? (for example the 'legacies > of blood' series, are they the same cards or a unique line?) Legacies of Blood is an expansion much like any other. It introduced four new clans and one new discipline, as well as new vampires and library cards for the various bloodlines previously released. > What kind of balance problems can i expect when combining decks? You should find that most well-built decks hold up fairly well against the newer competition, and it will hopefully not be an issue. There will probably be some new cards that would improve your deck, but all- Jyhad decks still come up every once in a while and still do ok. > Thanks. You're welcome! witness1

On Apr 23, 10:34 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello everyone, > I am now looking to buy cards from a newer edition > > On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > >; most > > cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing > > to teachnewplayers as well. > > is that true? Yes, Every single card every printed for VTES is legal barring the following list of 8 cards. The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: * Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES) * Kindred Restructure (V:TES) * Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns) * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) * Succubus Club (V:TES) * Any cards that are usable only when playing for ante, including: o Cunctator Motion (V:TES) o High Stakes (V:TES) o Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns) > If i own decks from both the first edition and the third edition, will > i be able to combine decks? The library cards you can combine freely, but the vampires are now grouped. Only vampires from adjacent groups are compatable (i.e. 1+2, 2+3, 3+4, 4+5). Vampire Grouping is determined by the following rule. Group: Each vampire belongs to a specific group, identified by a number above the upper left corner of the text box. A player's crypt must be built using vampires from a single group or from two consecutive groups. This does not restrict a Methuselah from stealing vampires from other groups through play, however. Cards from some older sets do not have this designation. For those cards, the ones with an expansion set symbol (an icon in the upper right corner of the card) are treated as Group 2 vampires; the others are Group 1 vampires. > Which cards are deemed banned after the first edition was printed? The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: * Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES) * Kindred Restructure (V:TES) * Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns) * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) * Succubus Club (V:TES) * Any cards that are usable only when playing for ante, including: o Cunctator Motion (V:TES) o High Stakes (V:TES) o Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns) > also, what are all these special editions? (for example the 'legacies > of blood' series, are they the same cards or a unique line?) Each expansion or "special edition" as you call them introduces a new facet to the game. They are playable on there own or in combonation with other sets. > What kind of balance problems can i expect when combining decks? The game is balanced, just make sure you have a legal crypt. Welcome back to the game. :) Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

> The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: > * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) Why is this card still banned? I could understand why with it's AH text but with it's MRP text, why? Sorrow --- Why did the chicken cross the road? "To die. Alone. In the rain." - Ernest Hemingway

"Sorrow" <jcb...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:UaGdnVbaXKpvc7Hb...@comcast.com: >> The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: >> * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) > > Why is this card still banned? I could understand why with it's AH > text but with it's MRP text, why? > Even with the MRP, its still too powerful of an effect for a single action in the game... DZ AW

witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> writes: > On Apr 23, 11:34 am, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I am now looking to buy cards from a newer edition > > > > On Apr 3, 7:00 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > > > > >; most > > > cards are still legal (even from Jyhad), and most players are willing > > > to teachnewplayers as well. > > > > is that true? > > If i own decks from both the first edition and the third edition, will > > i be able to combine decks? > > There is a caveat: the grouping rule. Newer vampires (since Camarilla > Edition) have a small white number printed on their lower left corner. > Cards printed prior to Cam Ed are group 1 (if they are from Jyhad/ > V:tES base set - i.e., have no expansion symbol) or group 2 (if they > are from any other expansion). You are only allowed to use two > consecutive groups when constructing your deck (i.e., groups 1 and 2 > together, or groups 2 and 3 together, but not 1 and 3 together, and > not 1, 2, and 3 together). > > Note that two players with different grouping pairs can still play > against each other - the grouping rule only applies to deck > construction. I'd like to clarify, and point out that the grouping rule only applies to crypt cards (orange backs). Library cards (green backs) can be freely mixed between sets and editions. So in your example, where you had cards from the first edition (Jyhad/VTES) and third edition, all your vampires would have to come from either only first or only third edition, but you can freely use any non-vampire cards you like. [Snip question about banned cards, I have nothing to add] > > also, what are all these special editions? (for example the 'legacies > > of blood' series, are they the same cards or a unique line?) > > Legacies of Blood is an expansion much like any other. It introduced > four new clans and one new discipline, as well as new vampires and > library cards for the various bloodlines previously released. One good thing to know is the difference between base sets and expansions. Base sets, such as third edition, are designed to be everything you need. That means if you buy third edition boosters, and nothing else at all, you can still create lots of cool and viable decks. Base sets are Jyhad, VTES, Sabbat, Sabbat War, Camarilla Edition and Third Edition. > > > What kind of balance problems can i expect when combining decks? > > You should find that most well-built decks hold up fairly well against > the newer competition, and it will hopefully not be an issue. There > will probably be some new cards that would improve your deck, but all- > Jyhad decks still come up every once in a while and still do ok. You don't need to own cards from different sets, but it would do you good to *know* the most important cards from different sets. That way you'll get less nasty surprises. "Hmm, he has lots of little Ravnos, but they can only bleed for one, so I should be safe. Hey, what's that card?" HG [ quoted text not captured ]

"Sorrow" <jcb...@yahoo.com> writes: > > The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: > > * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) > > Why is this card still banned? I could understand why with it's AH text but > with it's MRP text, why? This is why: The Return to Innocence [AH:R2] Cardtype: Action Cost: 4 blood {(D) Bleed. If you successfully bleed your prey for one or more, put this card on the acting vampire. Burn this card if this vampire loses any blood or goes to torpor, or if your prey is ousted. During your next untap, this vampire is removed from the game and your prey burns X pool, where X is the capacity of this vampire.} Madness Network [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R] Cardtype: Master Clan: Malkavian Unique master. Put this card in play. After another Methuselah has finished all of his or her minion phase actions, any untapped Malkavians (going clockwise) can take actions. Any minion can burn this card as an action that any untapped Malkavian (in addition to the normally eligible blockers) can attempt to block (go clockwise if 2 or more want to block). [ quoted text not captured ]

On Apr 23, 12:37 pm, "Sorrow" <jcbo...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments: > > * The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts) > > Why is this card still banned? I could understand why with it's AH text but > with it's MRP text, why? Probably, because of the amazingly crappy artwork. :) ....or Etrius/Spirodonas rips you a new one with Perfect Clarity. or Eze disables your bouncer with Perfect Clarity and Approximation of Loyaty on a Strange Day. Doesn't that sound like fun! [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Why is this card still banned? I could understand why with it's AH text >> but >> with it's MRP text, why? > The Return to Innocence [AH:R2] > Madness Network [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R] Point well taken... Sorrow --- "..and most surprisingly of all - hardly any shock value. How can you make a film about bumping uglies with the dead and yet lack shock value?"

On Apr 23, 11:48 am, h...@iki.fi.remove.these.invalid (Janne Hägglund) wrote: > Base sets, such as third edition, are designed to be everything you need. > That means if you buy third edition boosters, and nothing else at all, you > can still create lots of cool and viable decks. > > Base sets are Jyhad, VTES, Sabbat, Sabbat War, Camarilla Edition and > Third Edition. Lets take that literaly. Say i have a first edition JYHAD starter deck and am acquiring third edition booster packs and nothing else at all. I will still be able to combine JYHAD starter deck library cards with third edition booster packs yet crypt cards would have to be of the same edition. Is this right?

In message <1177382196.8...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "cool....@gmail.com" <cool....@gmail.com> writes: >Say i have a first edition JYHAD starter deck and am acquiring third >edition booster packs and nothing else at all. >I will still be able to combine JYHAD starter deck library cards with >third edition booster packs yet crypt cards would have to be of the >same edition. > >Is this right? In that situation, yes. Of course, if in a few months time you decided to buy a few boosters from a recent set like Legacies of Blood, you could combine all the library cards from Legacies of Blood, Jyhad, and Third Edition, and would be able to combine many of the vampires from LoB with Third Edition too. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] effectively, but not really the correct reasoning. The edition of the cards has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you can mix them. All editions are freely mixable within the one deck with all other editions (and playable against other decks made with any editions). However, the *grouping rule* prevents mixing crypt cards that are not of consecutive groups within a given crypt, and it just so happens that 3rd edition crypt cards are all 2 or more groups ahead of jyhad edition crypt cards. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

On Apr 23, 10:36 pm, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Lets take that literaly. > Say i have a first edition JYHAD starter deck and am acquiring third > edition booster packs and nothing else at all. > I will still be able to combine JYHAD starter deck library cards with > third edition booster packs yet crypt cards would have to be of the > same edition. > > Is this right? Yes. Granted, a lot of the Jyhad cards have slightly different wording than the 3rd Ed cards (in any situation where your Jyhad cards have different wording than your 3rd cards, the 3rd wording is correct). And as noted, the vampire groups don't mix (Jyhad vampires are Group 1; 3rd vampires are Group 4; you can only mix vampires of 2 adjacent groups, i.e. 1/2 or 2/3 or 3/4), but if you are playing with a limited pool of cards, it is pretty safe to ignore the grouping rule till you get more cards (unless you are playing in a tournament). But the short answer is: Yes, you can freely mix Jyhad, VTES, 3rd, whatever cards together in your decks. -Peter

On Apr 23, 10:36 pm, "cool.ch...@gmail.com" <cool.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Say i have a first edition JYHAD starter deck and am acquiring third > edition booster packs and nothing else at all. > I will still be able to combine JYHAD starter deck library cards with > third edition booster packs yet crypt cards would have to be of the > same edition. > > Is this right? As others have pointed out, yes, that's (essentially) correct. It's probably worth noting that you'll have two different card backs on the library cards (well, and the crypt cards, but those won't matter in this case); generally, as long as you're not using it to "mark" your deck (ie, all the master cards are Jyhad-backed, all the others are VTES-backed), folks don't care much in casual play, but in a tournament situation it's probably worth putting sleeves on 'em just to avoid any possible objections. - D.J.