[LSJ] Heaven's Gate

Hi all We in our group are discussing the exactly function of this card. Lets say I have Saulot ready and untapped, and a Gregory Winter. Greg is blocked in his action and burned in combat. Saulot plays Heaven's Gate...and what happen with the poor of Greg? A) He is in the uncontrolled zone, but it is controlled. A1) Indeed is like a torpor effect, and Saulot may take an action to rescue him. A2) He must wait until my next untap-discard-whatever, and then he will be ready. B) He is like a banished vampire, and I must transfer to bring it into play again. C) None of the above. Please, explain to us what happen exactly to the ally and how/when i can use him again. Here is the text of the card: Heaven's Gate Only usable by a ready untapped vampire not involved in combat. [nec] Prevent 1 damage to an ally in combat. [obe] Only usable when an ally is burned in combat. Move that ally to his or her controller's uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready) instead. Put 1 life on the ally from the blood bank if he or she has no life. [OBE] As [obe] above, but add up to 2 life to the ally, not to exceed his or her starting amount. Thanks a lot in advance.

<Ashenb...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1133129050.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Hi all > > We in our group are discussing the exactly function of this card. > > Lets say I have Saulot ready and untapped, and a Gregory Winter. Greg > is blocked in his action and burned in combat. Saulot plays Heaven's > Gate...and what happen with the poor of Greg? > > A) He is in the uncontrolled zone, but it is controlled. > A1) Indeed is like a torpor effect, and Saulot may take an > action to rescue him. > A2) He must wait until my next untap-discard-whatever, and > then he will be ready. > A2. The result of playing HG at obe/OBE should be just like a successful recruit ally action. Greg is moved to your ready region at the end of your turn. Per 6.1.5 of the rule book: "If the action is successful, the ally is placed in your uncontrolled region, even though it is controlled, to indicate that it cannot act this turn (and the cost, if any, is paid)." and then "At the end of the turn, any allies that were placed in your uncontrolled region (to indicate that they cannot act) are moved to your ready region." IANLSJ, but it seems pretty clear that's what's intended. I do have two additional questions: (1) If Greg is burned while empty, and HG is played at OBE, does he come out with 3 life? (1 from the obe effect, and 2 additional from the OBE add-on effect) Or is it 2 life? (the 2 life referenced in the OBE effect take the place of the 1 referenced in the obe effect) It seems like it would be 3, as the 2 life in the OBE effect seems a different effect. (2) Instead of Greg, suppose we have a War Ghoul or a Shambling Hordes burned with Blood to Water. Is the "entering play" clause triggered for those cards, thereby requiring us to burn an ally/retainter or remove and ally/vamp from the game? Or did they never leave play in the first place, so that clause doesn't apply? TIA, Pat

Ashenb...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi all > > We in our group are discussing the exactly function of this card. > > Lets say I have Saulot ready and untapped, and a Gregory Winter. Greg > is blocked in his action and burned in combat. Saulot plays Heaven's > Gate...and what happen with the poor of Greg? > > A) He is in the uncontrolled zone, but it is controlled. > A1) Indeed is like a torpor effect, and Saulot may take an > action to rescue him. > A2) He must wait until my next untap-discard-whatever, and > then he will be ready. > > B) He is like a banished vampire, and I must transfer to bring it into > play again. Hello, A2 is what you are looking for, and untap-discard whatever is the end of your turn. See Rule 6.1.5 (http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_1_5): [ quoted text not captured ]

Pat wrote: > <Ashenb...@gmail.com> wrote in message >>Lets say I have Saulot ready and untapped, and a Gregory Winter. Greg >>is blocked in his action and burned in combat. Saulot plays Heaven's >>Gate...and what happen with the poor of Greg? >> >>A) He is in the uncontrolled zone, but it is controlled. >> A2) He must wait until my next untap-discard-whatever, and >>then he will be ready. > > A2. The result of playing HG at obe/OBE should be just like a successful > recruit ally action. Greg is moved to your ready region at the end of your > turn. Correct. > I do have two additional questions: > > (1) If Greg is burned while empty, and HG is played at OBE, does he come out > with 3 life? (1 from the obe effect, and 2 additional from the OBE add-on > effect) > > Or is it 2 life? (the 2 life referenced in the OBE effect take the place of > the 1 referenced in the obe effect) > > It seems like it would be 3, as the 2 life in the OBE effect seems a > different effect. Correct. Card text is "As above, but" rather than "As above, and" > (2) Instead of Greg, suppose we have a War Ghoul or a Shambling Hordes > burned with Blood to Water. Is the "entering play" clause triggered for > those cards, thereby requiring us to burn an ally/retainter or remove and > ally/vamp from the game? > > Or did they never leave play in the first place, so that clause doesn't > apply? They did not leave play and are not re-entering play. So any equipment they had they keep, along with any Corruption counters that had been played on them, for example. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > Pat wrote: >> I do have two additional questions: >> >> (1) If Greg is burned while empty, and HG is played at OBE, does he >> come out with 3 life? (1 from the obe effect, and 2 additional from >> the OBE add-on effect) >> >> Or is it 2 life? (the 2 life referenced in the OBE effect take the >> place of the 1 referenced in the obe effect) >> >> It seems like it would be 3, as the 2 life in the OBE effect seems a >> different effect. > > Correct. Card text is "As above, but" rather than "As above, and" Sorry, misread your "seems like". It is indeed the latter -- As [obe] but gain 2 (instead of 1). Not As [obe] and gain 2 (in addition to 1). [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > (2) Instead of Greg, suppose we have a War Ghoul or a Shambling Hordes > > burned with Blood to Water. Is the "entering play" clause triggered for > > those cards, thereby requiring us to burn an ally/retainter or remove and > > ally/vamp from the game? > > > > Or did they never leave play in the first place, so that clause doesn't > > apply? > > They did not leave play and are not re-entering play. > > So any equipment they had they keep, along with any Corruption counters > that had been played on them, for example. I would think Shambling Hordes could not be saved via Heavan's Gate due to card text on Hordes: Hordes can never gain life counters; any life counters it gains go to the blood bank instead.

On 27 Nov 2005 21:49:13 -0800, "Tom Duncan" <veknp...@yahoo.com> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] In his example the Shambling didn't die from lack of life counters, it was merely "burned" from a blood to water. So it goes to the uncontrolled region with however many life counters it had. Then 1 (or 2) life counters are added, and these extra ones go to the blood bank instead of the Shambling because of the Shambler's card text. salem http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] It would look that way, but the crucial element is that they were killed by Blood to Water, burning them outright (with all their life counters intact). If they left play and then re-entered play, they would have no life and you would be right. But since they are "saved" before they're burnt, they get to keep any life they have. You're correct that they don't gain any life from the [obe] or [OBE] effects, though.