clever/odd decks

By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or sometimes pointless decks. All start with a couple of examples to explain my meaning. A friend of mine made a drunken riot deck. Brujah with a bunch a loyal street gangs, arsons and a distraction or two. He chose the cards by the illustrations. If it had looting, rioting or general drunkeness in the graphic it was part of the deck. It didn't do much but was funny to watch. Somebody posted somewhere about a deck where two vamps would have shotguns, one would bum's rush get a shot off, press and earth meld to end combat and untap. The other one would hidden lurker and start combat again, do the same as above, keep doing it until the job was done. Seemed highly uneffective. My own addition was actually workable (I've only played it once, I was very lucky and cleared a table). Bring out Masika and a bunch of Toreodor blockers. Give Masika aching beautys- two or three are best. Play a clan impersonation to...Malkavian. This will get their attention. Follow it with a Malkavian Madness Network. Masika then gets to bleed, untap between peoples turns and bleed at the end of their turn. You're able to get off between 8+ bleed/turn in a four person game. It has a very lengthy set-up time and of course every resource must be used to keep the Madness network in play and keep Masika alive. (This is the only deck that I've felt justified in playing a fistful of Majesty) I would love to hear other people's concepts and ideas.

Daniel Frey <Danie...@bcpress.com> wrote: > By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian > deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as > you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. > I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or > sometimes pointless decks. All start with a couple of examples to > explain my meaning. I once made a "Mad Masika's Harem" based around Masika, two copies of Talbot's chainsaw, and all the Malkavians with celerity, auspex, and obfuscate. The goal of the deck was to get Masika out with a sport bike, the Rack, a hunting ground, and an obfuscate card, then block someone, and Disguised Weapon the Chainsaw and go to work. I had some other weapons in there in case the primary combo didn't work. It was an okay deck, and I've played it a bunch around here, so people are someone scared of it. The amusing thing about the deck is that it only wins if I don't bring out Masika until the endgame. Its a fine Malk/Torie intercept deck, but the blood cost of its primary purpose is just too high. -Mark Langsdorf http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html

Daniel Frey wrote: > > By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian > deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as > you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. > I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or > sometimes pointless decks.... I've been having some fun with a concept in the JOL games. The nice thing about JOL is that you can have as many of those obscure rares that you want in a deck. The concept: Temptation, Heidelburg Castle. I have tried this concept with a FOS deck but the FOS really have limited combat defence. I am forced to rely on Majesties which a true combat deck thrashes. On the other hand, I can tempt those annoying combat monsters and abuse them royally. What I do is tempt, wait a few turns, take control and take an action, then use HC to xfer all blood and equipment to one of my minions. Now the poor sap has to hunt (unless he has a HG) and I get control again next turn. By including costly cards in my deck the vampire is MINE, MINE, all MINE!!! All he gets to do is hunt. If he has a HG out or a blood doll, there are some easy solutions if you know what I mean. (Think day op, RTI, 6+ bleeds with stealth, Arson, etc.). Heck, with Antidiluvian Awakenings, once you tempt the guy, you can just about guarentee that he is going to be burnt or some other decent vampire. Once I get 2 or 3 temptations on my prey, I really, really mess with his game. The problems are that the deck is slow to develop, pitiful on defense, and once I ouste my prey I lose some of MY borrowed minions and have to start all over again. But even when I lose it is such fun to wreak havoc by stealing his minions, Mind Numbing his remaining defender, and blitzing his depleted lines. Because I am tired of my poor Settites having to cower in hidden corners, I am now trying to build a similar deck around Suhailah. With superior Fortitude for combat survival and Prince for intercept it should do a little better. Saqqaf also has fortitude and a few skill cards should provide a meeting of clans. But this deck is still pretty raw and I made some big mistakes in my current version.

Daniel Frey <Danie...@bcpress.com> wrote in article <32FF48...@bcpress.com>... > By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian > deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as > you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. > I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or > sometimes pointless decks. All start with a couple of examples to > explain my meaning. > One of the decks that I've got in a JOL game does just this. It's called the Congressional Budget, and it's a Malkavian anti-Voting deck. The basic idea behind the deck is to make voting as painful as possible. Then, I try to make the other Meths WANT to vote. I'll play Malkavian Seven Miseries, Bureaucratic Overload, princes, the Elysiums, etc. to cause general disarray. It's heavy on the Malkavian game cards (Game of Malkav, Malkavian Time Auction, Malkavian Prank). It's not always very effective, but it's fun as hell. Yes, I have won with the deck before. One of my favorite stunts is to play Malkavian Rider Clause, followed up with Command of the Harpies. "The proposer of said document hereby promises to go on a much-needed vacation." Another idea for a deck I'll try at a later date is the Turkish Bazaar deck. It's an Assamite deck that sells Contracts and other cards to other Meths using the Succubus Club. I'll probably throw in a number of clan-specific cards and Clan Impersonations for enterprising Meths (like myself, in a small market). > My own addition was actually workable (I've only played it once, I was > very lucky and cleared a table). Bring out Masika and a bunch of > Toreodor blockers. Give Masika aching beautys- two or three are best. > Play a clan impersonation to...Malkavian. This will get their attention. > Follow it with a Malkavian Madness Network. Masika then gets to bleed, > untap between peoples turns and bleed at the end of their turn. You're > able to get off between 8+ bleed/turn in a four person game. > It has a very lengthy set-up time and of course every resource must be > used to keep the Madness network in play and keep Masika alive. (This is > the only deck that I've felt justified in playing a fistful of Majesty) > > I would love to hear other people's concepts and ideas. Actually, the Congressional Budget does have a combo that's more card intensive, and thus more fun (for a Malkavian). Get out Greger Anderssen or Zebulon or give Protean to any Malkavian, then give that Malk Aaron's Feeding Razor, a Homunculus, and play Madness Network. I like it because it is so unwieldy. I call it the Great Cornholio Combo. John Baker

I always like the Masika/Clan Impersenation/Madness Network combo. If you pull it of it's really cool On 11 Feb 1997 15:21:37 GMT, Mark Langsdorf <mlan...@io.com> wrote: >Daniel Frey <Danie...@bcpress.com> wrote: >> By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian >> deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as >> you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. >> I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or >> sometimes pointless decks. All start with a couple of examples to >> explain my meaning. > [ quoted text not captured ]

> Daniel Frey <Danie...@bcpress.com> wrote: > > By now most of us know how to construct a gangrel deck or a malkavian > > deck. Some deck construction is pretty straight forward and as soon as > > you know which clan you wish to play you just pull the necessary cards. > > I'm curious to hear peoples stories creating original, funny and/or > > sometimes pointless decks. All start with a couple of examples to > > explain my meaning. I once made a Malkavian deck whose sole purpose was to create chaos. :) Basically, it had some defelctions, obediances, and the like to keep it alive long enough to play as many of the "fun" cards as possible. People really begin to dread your Master Phase - will it be a Time Auction? a Game of Malcav? a Malkavian Prank? or perhaps some other dreadfully random card which I've happened to draw. ;^] This deck is a ton of fun to play, but it almost never wins (although it is quite often the second to last left alive). I reconmend this deck type to anyone who want to see confused and vacant expressions on your fellow gamer's faces. :) Have fun, -David Monson, the Crimson Tiger, stalker of the hidden jungles dj...@cec.wustl.edu http://www.cec.wustl.edu/~djm4/

Thus saith David Monson, CT the Unworthy, in the Year of Our Lord Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:24:36 -0600 : > I once made a Malkavian deck whose sole purpose was to create chaos. :) [snippage] > This deck is a ton of fun to play, but it almost never wins (although it > is quite often the second to last left alive). I reconmend this deck type > to anyone who want to see confused and vacant expressions on your fellow > gamer's faces. :) Hehe, this is a good one. I an one or two others have fielded Malkavian Madness decks. Madness of the Bard is an essential card for this one. Hostile Takeover, Reversal of Fortune, and Kindred Restructure are a lot of fun too :) Hardrock, who should rebuild his version %-) -- Hardrock Llewynyth a.g.AB founding member (DNRC) hard...@speakeasy.org http://www.speakeasy.org/~hardrock Proposal: alt.sex.fetish.duct-tape

In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.970214121648.11597A- 100...@ritz.cec.wustl.edu>, "David Monson, CT" <dj...@cec.wustl.edu> writes >I once made a Malkavian deck whose sole purpose was to create chaos. :) Isn't that the point of every Malk deck? -- Pax Vobiscum Justin Grace

Justin Grace <Jus...@bgrace.demon.co.uk> >"David Monson, CT" <dj...@cec.wustl.edu> writes >>I once made a Malkavian deck whose sole purpose was to create chaos. :) >Isn't that the point of every Malk deck? Well, no. There was just a thread here on how it can spoil a game if some people are playing to win and some aren't. It's no fun to lose a game to somebody who had the good fortune to have one of these goofy Malk deck predators and basically gets to sweep the table since he doesn't need to defend himself. It's even less fun to have such a deck hand the game to its prey (via D-bleeds on its grandprey) because "hey, I'm a Malkavian, so I'll be crazy". Yes, I've seen it. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

I read about using Malk chaos deck, but favorite the the Chaos deck using vampires with D actions, placing ambush/Bum's Rush cards with a few good weapons, say .44's, several Haven uncovered cards, then go to town of the other players. This deck did clear the table once, but it is mostly just to have fun and see the looks of everyones faces. Another good deck is the "machine bleed" I use vampires with superior Fort, and give then serpentis. Place a heart of darkness of the vampire and you are ready to bleed with "Force of will" until your vampire runs out of blood. Withthe Heart of darkness all agro is normal and Sup fort means a typical 3 bleed, and the vampire pays 1 and takes 1. Action modifiers can still be played with the Force of will. A 8 pointer can bleed 4 times. thats at least 12 pool lost, throw in couple of action mods and your prey is out.

> Another good deck is the "machine bleed" I use vampires with superior > Fort, and give then serpentis. Place a heart of darkness of the vampire > and you are ready to bleed with "Force of will" until your vampire runs > out of blood. Withthe Heart of darkness all agro is normal and Sup fort > means a typical 3 bleed, and the vampire pays 1 and takes 1. Action > modifiers can still be played with the Force of will. A 8 pointer can > bleed 4 times. thats at least 12 pool lost, throw in couple of action > mods and your prey is out. Except that this is illegal under no repeat actions... James -- James Hamblin je...@cornell.edu --------------------------------------------------- "Well, Mulder didn't say that it _was_ Alex Trebek, just someone who looked extremely like him." -- Dana Scully, X-Files: "Jose Chung's _From Outer Space_"

Madness of the Bard seems to make tables go quiet 'round here. If you can't think of anything that rhymes to say, say nothing . . . To encourage people to talk, and thereby trap themselves, some of the other 'fun' masters work well. Society of Leopold, Millicent Smith, Curse of Nitocris, and of course, anything that involves bidding: Malk Time Auction, Hostile Takeover, etc.. Keep their mind occupied so they can't think of way to rhyme, "I'm taking a D action to burn the Madness." Zach It's not hard, quite a simple little card, my master will be, Madness of the Bard.

David J. McCarty wrote: > > I read about using Malk chaos deck, but favorite the the Chaos deck using > vampires with D actions, placing ambush/Bum's Rush cards with a few good > weapons, say .44's, several Haven uncovered cards, then go to town of the > other players. This deck did clear the table once, but it is mostly just > to have fun and see the looks of everyones faces. > > Another good deck is the "machine bleed" I use vampires with superior > Fort, and give then serpentis. Place a heart of darkness of the vampire > and you are ready to bleed with "Force of will" until your vampire runs > out of blood. Withthe Heart of darkness all agro is normal and Sup fort > means a typical 3 bleed, and the vampire pays 1 and takes 1. Action > modifiers can still be played with the Force of will. A 8 pointer can > bleed 4 times. thats at least 12 pool lost, throw in couple of action > mods and your prey is out. That's pretty nasty, except for the new no repeat actions rule for officially sanctioned V:tES games. 1 bleed per turn per minion.

James Hamblin <je...@cornell.edu> writes: >> Another good deck is the "machine bleed" I use vampires with superior >> Fort, and give then serpentis. Place a heart of darkness of the vampire >> and you are ready to bleed with "Force of will" until your vampire runs >> out of blood. Withthe Heart of darkness all agro is normal and Sup fort >> means a typical 3 bleed, and the vampire pays 1 and takes 1. Action >> modifiers can still be played with the Force of will. A 8 pointer can >> bleed 4 times. thats at least 12 pool lost, throw in couple of action >> mods and your prey is out. >Except that this is illegal under no repeat actions... Speaking of which, could someone remind me what exactly the complete rule on no repeat actions is? Xian >James >--

herr...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Christian S Herro) writes: >Speaking of which, could someone remind me what exactly the complete rule >on no repeat actions is? From the DCI: 1. Repeat Action rule: No single vampire can repeat an action in a turn. This refers to the particular action type. For example, a vampire which successfully bleeds its prey via Computer Hacking, then untaps via Freak Drive, cannot perform any bleeding action again whatsoever that turn, regardless of whether or not it is a Computer Hacking action. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Washington, DC: http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | America's work-free Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | drug place

>1. Repeat Action rule: No single vampire can repeat an >action in a turn. > This refers to the particular action type. What exactly is an action type? Is it only an action that duplicates one of the basic actions (e.g. all the D bleeds), or does it include cards that have the same basic effect but are different? (For example, presumably Bum's Rush and itself are the same action type, but what about a Rush and an Ambush, or a Rush and a Haven action?) --- Liam Burke "Only a Malkavian would attack Cthulhu with laughing gas..." -overheard

JlB1925 (jlb...@aol.com) wrote: : >1. Repeat Action rule: No single vampire can repeat an >action in a turn. : > This refers to the particular action type. : What exactly is an action type? Is it only an action that duplicates one : of the basic actions (e.g. all the D bleeds), or does it include cards : that have the same basic effect but are different? (For example, : presumably Bum's Rush and itself are the same action type, but what about : a Rush and an Ambush, or a Rush and a Haven action?) An action type is any type of action defined by the rulebook: * Bleed * Hunt * Employ (Retainer) * Recruit (Ally) * Equip (incl. transferring equipment) * Call a vote * Leave Torpor * Rescue (from Torpor) * Diablerize (in Torpor) Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take an action not listed above is its own type (by name). And, each card in play that provides an action not listed above is its own type (by name). Bum's Rush, Ambush, and the attack allowed by a Haven Uncovered are all different types of actions. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take : an action not listed above is its own type (by name). In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. Correct? Joe -- Joe Helfrich, Managing Editor, CPI | Space! Our final hope/throw the drowning j...@dimensional.com | man a rope/the choice is for us to say/ http://www.dimensional.com/~jbh | completely change or fade away. ...we can't just sit back and wait for a happy ending.

Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote: : L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : : Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take : : an action not listed above is its own type (by name). : In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and : GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. : Correct? Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <5fei1b$k...@news.wizards.com>, L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote: >: L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: >: : Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take >: : an action not listed above is its own type (by name). > >: In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and >: GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. > >: Correct? > >Correct. Why not? The two actions are clearly of different types. Sort of screwy that you can GtU superior, untap, and Enchant Kindred superior (or even 4th Tradition, Kindred Intelligence, etc), even though those actions are clearly the same type, and not use GtU twice for very different actions. Judy -- *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Judith Grunberger, Technical Writing Weenie/Intern, McCabe & Associates | | jcoo...@glue.umd.edu * http://www.glue.umd.edu/~jcookson | *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Judith Cookson Grunberger wrote: > > In article <5fei1b$k...@news.wizards.com>, > L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > >Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote: > >: L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: > >: : Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take > >: : an action not listed above is its own type (by name). > > > >: In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and > >: GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. > > > >: Correct? > > > >Correct. > > Why not? The two actions are clearly of different types. Because it's simpler this way, and it's a card game. This way you don't have to wonder if inferior and superior versions of Shepherd's Innocence are different, since one is directed and one is not; or if Cryptic is different, since one gains you blood and one doesn't; etc. (Sacrifical Lamb, Ablative Skin, Shadow of the Beast, Tier of Souls, Wave of Insanity, etc.) > Sort of screwy that you can GtU superior, untap, and Enchant Kindred > superior (or even 4th Tradition, Kindred Intelligence, etc), even though > those actions are clearly the same type, and not use GtU twice for very > different actions. Or that you can hunt, untap, and Restoration Or that you can't get a palatial estate after buying a pair of IR goggles, but you could employ Jackie Therman or grow Patagia wings. But, it's easy enough to follow, even if it is a little screwy. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <331B00...@regency.wizards.com>, L. Scott Johnson <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote: >Judith Cookson Grunberger wrote: >> >> In article <5fei1b$k...@news.wizards.com>, >> L. Scott Johnson <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >> >Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote: >> >: L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: >> >: : Additionally, each action card (by name) that is used to take >> >: : an action not listed above is its own type (by name). >> > >> >: In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and >> >: GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. >> > >> >: Correct? >> > >> >Correct. >> >> Why not? The two actions are clearly of different types. > >Because it's simpler this way, and it's a card game. >This way you don't have to wonder if inferior and superior >versions of Shepherd's Innocence are different, since one is >directed and one is not; or if Cryptic is different, since >one gains you blood and one doesn't; etc. (Sacrifical Lamb, >Ablative Skin, Shadow of the Beast, Tier of Souls, Wave of >Insanity, etc.) But the inferior version already falls into the "bleed" type. If a vampire uses GtU inferior to bleed, it doesn't make sense to restrict both further bleeds and GtU superior, which are completely independent. For Shepherd's Innocence, Ablative Skin, etc., neither inferior or superior are of predefined types, so they don't have this problem. Brian

Brian E. Wellington wrote: > [big clip because my news server makes me do it!] > > But the inferior version already falls into the "bleed" type. If a > vampire uses GtU inferior to bleed, it doesn't make sense to restrict > both further bleeds and GtU superior, which are completely independent. > > For Shepherd's Innocence, Ablative Skin, etc., neither inferior or > superior are of predefined types, so they don't have this problem. > The confusion here is due to the fact that unlike some other cards (i.e. Bum's Rush, Albative Skin) GtU qualifies as a "Type" of action (it is listed as a category of action in the rulebook). In the case of GtU, there are two reasons (category of action and card name) that prevent it from being repeated. While I see your point that this is a "bleed" action (the category) and the superior version is not a "bleed" action, both are still "Govern the Unaligned" actions and prevented by the card name restriction. Robert -- ...................................................................... :The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings: :and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. : : : :Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com: :LA Tourny Info -> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~ezix/other/rg/vtourn_1.html: :....................................................................: :Da pony run, he jump he pitch. He t'row my master in da ditch. : :He died and da jury wondered why. Da verdict was the blue tail fly.: :....................................................................:

Robert Goudie wrote: > > The confusion here is due to the fact that unlike some other cards (i.e. > Bum's Rush, Albative Skin) GtU qualifies as a "Type" of action (it is > listed as a category of action in the rulebook). In the case of GtU, > there are two reasons (category of action and card name) that prevent it > from being repeated. Every specific card is its own type of action. So, for example, you couldn't Bum's Rush twice in a turn anymore than you can Govern the Unaligned twice in a turn. People get confused because infGtU and supGtU are actions which do different things, but they are both "Govern the Unaligned". So you can Bum's Rush _and_ Ambush in the same turn becuase "attack" isn't an action type and they are two different cards. Just hoping to clear things up... [ quoted text not captured ]

Brian E. Wellington wrote: > In article <331B00...@regency.wizards.com>, > L. Scott Johnson <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote: > >> >Joe Helfrich (j...@dimensional.com) wrote: > >> >: In other words, you cannot Govern The Unaligned to bleed, then untap and > >> >: GtU to move blood to a uncontrolled Vamp. > >> >Correct. > > > >Because it's simpler this way, and it's a card game. > >This way you don't have to wonder if inferior and superior > >versions of Shepherd's Innocence are different, since one is > >directed and one is not; or if Cryptic is different, since > >one gains you blood and one doesn't; etc. (Sacrifical Lamb, > >Ablative Skin, Shadow of the Beast, Tier of Souls, Wave of > >Insanity, etc.) > > But the inferior version already falls into the "bleed" type. If a > vampire uses GtU inferior to bleed, it doesn't make sense to restrict > both further bleeds and GtU superior, which are completely independent. The No Repeat Actions rule extends the restriction used by cards like Change of Target and Obedience. And these cards' restriction has already been ruled to treat actions as the same by card name. In the same way that Eagle's Sight inferior and superior are the same action modifier, for purposes of that restriction. [ quoted text not captured ]