Erciyes Fragment Question

Hmmm...I was just recalling a (usually) minor detail that has been mentioned in the past, about how equipiment/retainers/allies are technically placed in the ash heap when played. Here's an old post from LSJ: From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) Subject: Re: Experience Date: 2001-10-03 09:32:34 PST "Andrew S. Davidson" wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Oct 2001 10:20:49 -0400, LSJ wrote: > > >For instance, during an equip action, is the equipment placed above > >or below the stealth card used to help it succeed if the action is > >ultimately blocked? In practice, above. By rules, below. > > You are mistaken. The equipment card is played into the play area and > then burned when the action is resolved (6.2.3). The stealth card is > played straight into the ash pile (1.6.1.1). The equipment therefore > ends up on top of the stealth card in the ash pile. There is no clash > between theory and your practise. Technically it is played to the ash heap to start the action, then if the action succeeds, it is put into play. The only two options are "in play" and "ash heap", and the equipment doesn't enter play until the action succeeds (cf. attempting to equip with a Blood Tears while another Blood Tears is in play). If you prefer, use "Army of Rats" instead of equipment. The card only enters play if the action succeeds. Now how does this interact with the Erciyes Fragment? For example, my prey wants to equip with an Ivory Bow. He taps his minion and plays the Ivory Bow (which then goes to the ash heap and, if the action is successful, it goes into play). During the action (while determining blockers, combat, etc.), I decide to tap the Erciyes Fragment to move the Ivory Bow (that is currently being equipped) onto the Fragment. The action is then successful but the Ivory Bow is no longer in the ash heap. So what happens now? Halcyan 2

lol I think your answer lies in the name of the Fragment... hello Heidelburg errata... -- Mike Ooi "You have left the world. Click to continue."

Halcyan 2 wrote: > Now how does this interact with the Erciyes Fragment? For example, my prey > wants to equip with an Ivory Bow. He taps his minion and plays the Ivory Bow > (which then goes to the ash heap and, if the action is successful, it goes into > play). During the action (while determining blockers, combat, etc.), I decide > to tap the Erciyes Fragment to move the Ivory Bow (that is currently being > equipped) onto the Fragment. The action is then successful but the Ivory Bow is > no longer in the ash heap. So what happens now? He equips with the Ivory Bow (the action was successful). If you like, treat this as a reversal of the previous ruling -- the equipment is in limbo until the action resolves and cannot be affected. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20040623000513...@mb-m02.aol.com>... > > Now how does this interact with the Erciyes Fragment? For example, my prey > wants to equip with an Ivory Bow. He taps his minion and plays the Ivory Bow > (which then goes to the ash heap and, if the action is successful, it goes into > play). During the action (while determining blockers, combat, etc.), I decide > to tap the Erciyes Fragment to move the Ivory Bow (that is currently being > equipped) onto the Fragment. The action is then successful but the Ivory Bow is > no longer in the ash heap. So what happens now? If the action is succeful it moves the card from your Erciyes Fragment into play. Right?

>>Subject: Re: Erciyes Fragment Question >>From: LSJ vte...@white-wolf.com >> >> Now how does this interact with the Erciyes Fragment? For example, my prey >> wants to equip with an Ivory Bow. He taps his minion and plays the Ivory >Bow >> (which then goes to the ash heap and, if the action is successful, it goes >into >> play). During the action (while determining blockers, combat, etc.), I >decide >> to tap the Erciyes Fragment to move the Ivory Bow (that is currently being >> equipped) onto the Fragment. The action is then successful but the Ivory >Bow is >> no longer in the ash heap. So what happens now? > >He equips with the Ivory Bow (the action was successful). >If you like, treat this as a reversal of the previous ruling -- the >equipment is in limbo until the action resolves and cannot be affected. Ok that sounds good. In fact, the reversal is probably a good thing. Even though I sorta liked the simplicity and elegancy of the old system (it's either in play or in the ashheap), there do seem to be some problems with that sort of logic: It's been stated that: Cards that go into an ash heap, hand, or library always go into their owner's ash heap, hand, or library. [RTR 970425] This might have caused complications with Agaitas and Succubus Club. For example, under the old system, if you have cards in your hand owned by another Methusaleh and that Methusaleh is ousted, then when you play the equipment/retainer/whatever, it would go into that Methusaleh's ashheap (and just sort of vaporize), which might create some problems. Similarly, there would also be the issue that, similiar to my original question, if you equip with a card due to Agaitas' special (and the card then goes to your prey's ash heap) and then you use Erciyes Fragment to move the card it would also be a bit icky. Of course all of these problems seem to be neatly circumvented by the ruling reversal and the establishment of a "limbo" state. So nice work! Halcyan 2