Well, as the heading says, I finally got my Bloodlines box!
A handful of thoughts, questions, and spoilers (don't have my cards out at the
moment so I'm recalling from memory):
Doesn't Absorb the Mind seem a bit powerful (esp. at superior)? I know it's not
uber-powerful or anything, but a ranged strike that steals discipline cards (as
well as a blood methinks), all for free? Surely that must annoy lots of decks
since you steal away all those discipline cards!
BTW: Question #1: What happens if Absorb the Mind (superior) is used on a
discipline that the Kiasyd already has at superior? Is the Kiasyd not allowed
to choose that card in the first place (not a legal target so can't use that
strike)? Or is it stolen and then burned? Or does it just go on the vampire and
increases his/her capacity?
On a different note, do other people think that Temporis and even some Obeah
cards are a bit overpowered? I suppose White Wolf might have tried to justify
it with "since each clan only has 3 vampires, it probably won't be abused"
but... In any case, people shouldn't really be whining about 5th Tradition now.
Temporis, Obeah, and even the Daughters of Cacophony have their own versions
now. And what about that Temporis card that's placed on the acting vampire and
let's you Freak Drive all the time (for a blood)? Isn't that a bit powerful,
especially since the Trujah can just use their 5th's to fill up? I can't recall
if it's a "during minion phase do whatever" template or if it's usable after
each action. And superior Clio's Kiss is extremely powerful as well. Causing
someone to yield a vampire card is like an X pool bleed (where X is the
capacity). If I spend 8 pool on a vampire, and it gets contested, a simple
Clio's Kiss means I lose my entire investment! At least with Praxis: Solomon,
you have to deal with intercept *and* votes...maybe it's time to make a
Betrayer Trujah deck? Contest your prey's vampires and force him to yield?
In addition, some disciplines seem to be getting a bit screwed. Thaumaturgy and
Potence comes to mind. Thaumaturgy seems to be getting a lot of wussy cards.
The 1-point Blood Fury on that Valeren card comes to mind, as well as some
pathetic strikes on Viscertika(sp). I am glad that they finally do get a dodge
(with an optional press, for a blood). And maybe Apportations will devalue a
bit now that inferior thaumaturgy has a press (w/ no strings attached, for a
blood). Similarly, Potence seems to be getting a whole bunch of ranged strikes
that it really doesn't need.
Resurrection isn't really all that. It seems like just a version of Compel the
Spirit.
Question #2: Could be wrong but I don't think Resurrection says to add any life
counters to the retainer or the ally it brings back (i.e. for superior, it just
says to move the ally in the ash heap to your ready region). I assume allies
get their starting life? But what about retainers? What level (if they need
disciplines) are they at? I'm guessing they default to inferior and get the
appropriate amount of life as well?
I'm surprised and intrigued that there's a Kiasyd Archbishop. Unfortunately,
Mark V is just a gun, not a Hit-Mark. =(. It's like a 2 pool gun, does 4R,
only usable once a round or combat (not sure), and only usable at long range. A
lot of restrictions, but 4R for 2 pool is pretty cool (though the picture kinda
sucks). ::sigh:: Maybe the unique Hit-Mark ally will come out in the
Technocracy expansion. Condemnation: Languid sucks. And so does Gift of
Bellona. Blessing of the Name is pretty cool. It's a !Salubri action card where
the acting minion and two other minions you control are untapped and Blessing
is put into play. The three vamps get like +1 strength and +1 intercept or
something while the card is in play. And the card is burned and the three vamps
tapped during your next untap phase. Sort of like borrowing three minion
actions now and paying later. Basilisk's Touch seems a bit powerful. You can
torporize a vampire or burn an ally if you successfully deal any damage with
your hands (bye, bye War Ghoul or Renegade Garou). And the Herald of Topheth is
a nifty Baali demon ally (5 life, can play cards from three disciplines, and a
bunch of other stuff, though you have to pay a pool a turn to keep it alive).
I thought all the Tremere/!Tremere cards dealing with Gargoyles was
interesting, though I'm not sure exactly how useful it will all be. Other
people have discussed Defender of the Haven and Conscripted Statue (vic card).
Soul of the Earth is kinda lame. Just lowers the cost next time the Gargoyle
who it was played on employs a retainer or recruits an ally that requires
Gargoyle (though the Gargoyle retainers are hideously expensive, though cool).
And Create Gargoyle is like a super-Embrace (for 2 pool).
Ferox turned out to be rather wussy. A 7-cap Gargoyle (with all in-clans
superior I think and an out-of-clan inferior). Independent. Can attack
Nosferatu. Can't commit diablerie. Something else. I guess he joins Dylan in
the ranks of the lame Anathema. Kemintiri is an okay Anathema, while Tariq is
just plain scary. Luma has a lovely picture IMHO. And Pugfar is a really cool
!Tremere slave. He's a 5-cap with either (aus FOR pot vic) or (aus for POT
vic). Flight, and he can burn a blood to give a !Tremere you control a press.
Neato!
I don't suppose someone could give a recap of what gargoyles are out there,
which sect they belong to, and which ones are slaves? Thus far, I've only found
one !Tremere slave (Pugfar), though Erinyi is a Sabbat Gargoyle (non-slave). I
hope there are more !Tremere slaves!
Well, that's it for now. I'll try to post more later (along with more accurate
notes).
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> A handful of thoughts, questions, and spoilers (don't have my cards out at the
> moment so I'm recalling from memory):
>
> Doesn't Absorb the Mind seem a bit powerful (esp. at superior)? I know it's not
> uber-powerful or anything, but a ranged strike that steals discipline cards (as
> well as a blood methinks), all for free? Surely that must annoy lots of decks
> since you steal away all those discipline cards!
>
No, doesn't seem overpowered to me... the discipline card that seems to be most
frequently played is obf, and honestly, if a non-auspex non-2nd-broken fattie deck
(which Kyasid basically must be) successfully blocks one obfuscated
computer-hacking weenie, taking away that critter's edge doesn't seem like too much
of a reward.
> On a different note, do other people think that Temporis and even some Obeah
> cards are a bit overpowered? I suppose White Wolf might have tried to justify
> it with "since each clan only has 3 vampires, it probably won't be abused"
> but... In any case, people shouldn't really be whining about 5th Tradition now.
>
What annoyed me the most was seeing that some extremely powerful new discipline
cards have a very popular and reasonably powerful effect at the "other discipline"
level. Does anyone else just hate Domain of Evernight?
[Side note: explain how the "card utility" thingy justifies Muricia's Call being
R1. Anyone here who has never ever tried an animalism deck using ravens, raptors
and crows? That one, it's a rare-ified power card (well I for one always seem to
draw the crows when being preyed on by stealth and the ravens when I need extra
firepower vs. for, and this card solves that problem right well).]
> Resurrection isn't really all that. It seems like just a version of Compel the
> Spirit.
>
Yes... but at least that one fits the "low utility = R1" bill.
>
> Question #2: Could be wrong but I don't think Resurrection says to add any life
> counters to the retainer or the ally it brings back (i.e. for superior, it just
> says to move the ally in the ash heap to your ready region).
Yes it does : starting life (inf), and the sup is "as above".
> I'm surprised and intrigued that there's a Kiasyd Archbishop.
And he does look like an asset for Lasombra vote decks, too, sharing all their
disciplines... one of the good ones.
Thomas
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> BTW: Question #1: What happens if Absorb the Mind (superior) is used on a
> discipline that the Kiasyd already has at superior? Is the Kiasyd not allowed
> to choose that card in the first place (not a legal target so can't use that
> strike)? Or is it stolen and then burned? Or does it just go on the vampire and
> increases his/her capacity?
No. Like Lucian on a Sport Bike cannot steal a Hawg. [LSJ 06-FEB-1998] [LSJ 18-JUN-2000]
> Question #2: Could be wrong but I don't think Resurrection says to add any life
> counters to the retainer or the ally it brings back (i.e. for superior, it just
> says to move the ally in the ash heap to your ready region). I assume allies
> get their starting life? But what about retainers? What level (if they need
> disciplines) are they at? I'm guessing they default to inferior and get the
> appropriate amount of life as well?
Card text is explicit on these points.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
In message <20011204234437...@mb-fc.aol.com>, Halcyan 2
<halc...@aol.com> writes:
>Doesn't Absorb the Mind seem a bit powerful (esp. at superior)? I know it's not
>uber-powerful or anything, but a ranged strike that steals discipline cards (as
>well as a blood methinks), all for free? Surely that must annoy lots of decks
>since you steal away all those discipline cards!
Well:
a) you need to get into combat with them
b) not everyone plays Discipline cards (so it's going to sit there)
c) Sanguine Instruction 0wnz j00r 455 (I assume)
d) play it once and everyone re-adjusts around you (Okay, this is the
important vampire, so I'll always, always stealth his actions
past)
>On a different note, do other people think that Temporis and even some Obeah
>cards are a bit overpowered? I suppose White Wolf might have tried to justify
>it with "since each clan only has 3 vampires, it probably won't be abused"
>but...
They're also scarce.
Even with 3 vamps, you still have the kernel of a good deck,
potentially, assuming the vamps do what you want. (A number of good 1/2
vamp decks exist.)
>In any case, people shouldn't really be whining about 5th Tradition now.
>Temporis, Obeah, and even the Daughters of Cacophony have their own versions
>now.
This is, personally, what I want.
Personally, I feel that Horse Brutality is simply the 'next in line' for
griping, along with a fairly unique ability. A few similar style cards,
a few middle of the section options (cheaper but less effective or
whatever) and a few more counters a la Blood Clots. This stops the
Camarilla having exclusive jurisdiction on it and stops them being so
effective with it.
>I'm surprised and intrigued that there's a Kiasyd Archbishop. Unfortunately,
>Mark V is just a gun, not a Hit-Mark.
Campaign for one in the Camarilla set!
--
James Coupe When correctly viewed
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Everything is lewd
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 I could tell you things about Peter Pan
13D7E668C3695D623D5D And the Wizard of Oz, there's a dirty old man
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20011204234437...@mb-fc.aol.com>...
Could you post the text for these new 2nd traditions please? And the
temporis card that lets you untap all the time. Most, if not all, the
secondary discipline powers are mostly useless or very inferior
versions of stuff they could already do with other cards (nose of the
hound being the sole expection until now). Come on, how many more
cards that tap a minion do we need? i had enought at Jar the Soul and
Mind Numb!! Now practically every dicsipline can do that, some can
with more than one card... it愀 like strike:combat ends... before it
was a presence/protean thing basically, now, 90% of the disciplines do
that in some way or another! If every discipline does everything it
knid of gets boring... You said Condemnation: Languid and Gift of
Bellona suck, could you put their texs here as well, I think that
those two cards haven愒 been posted yet. And Kemintiri is most
definalety NOT an okay anathema... she was an okay vampire when there
was only her and Saqqaf with all three in-clan superiors.. now she is
vastly inferior to almost every setite with a capacity of 7 or more...
plus you see less and less Ventrue with each expansion, maybe after
the camarilla set comes out she will be once again barely usefull.
Come on, a 10cap with absolutely NO special unless 1 specific clan is
in play??? 9sorry fot the rant, it愀 just that I love Kemintiri as a
vampire NPC, and they really butchered her in jyhad :)
> Well, as the heading says, I finally got my Bloodlines box!
>
> A handful of thoughts, questions, and spoilers (don't have my cards out at the
> moment so I'm recalling from memory):
>
> Doesn't Absorb the Mind seem a bit powerful (esp. at superior)? I know it's not
> uber-powerful or anything, but a ranged strike that steals discipline cards (as
> well as a blood methinks), all for free? Surely that must annoy lots of decks
> since you steal away all those discipline cards!
>
> BTW: Question #1: What happens if Absorb the Mind (superior) is used on a
> discipline that the Kiasyd already has at superior? Is the Kiasyd not allowed
> to choose that card in the first place (not a legal target so can't use that
> strike)? Or is it stolen and then burned? Or does it just go on the vampire and
> increases his/her capacity?
>
> On a different note, do other people think that Temporis and even some Obeah
> cards are a bit overpowered? I suppose White Wolf might have tried to justify
> it with "since each clan only has 3 vampires, it probably won't be abused"
> but... In any case, people shouldn't really be whining about 5th Tradition now.
> Temporis, Obeah, and even the Daughters of Cacophony have their own versions> now.And what about that Temporis card that's placed on the acting vampire and[ quoted text not captured ]
>What annoyed me the most was seeing that some extremely powerful new
>discipline
>cards have a very popular and reasonably powerful effect at the "other
>discipline"
>level. Does anyone else just hate Domain of Evernight?
>[Side note: explain how the "card utility" thingy justifies Muricia's Call
>being
>R1. Anyone here who has never ever tried an animalism deck using ravens,
>raptors
>and crows? That one, it's a rare-ified power card (well I for one always seem
>to
>draw the crows when being preyed on by stealth and the ravens when I need
>extra
>firepower vs. for, and this card solves that problem right well).]
Muricia's Call is going to make Raptor decks that much more annoying...
>> Question #2: Could be wrong but I don't think Resurrection says to add any>life>> counters to the retainer or the ally it brings back (i.e. for superior, it>just>> says to move the ally in the ash heap to your ready region).>
>Yes it does : starting life (inf), and the sup is "as above".
You're right. I'm bad. That's what you get for skimming over the cards! =)
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> >[Side note: explain how the "card utility" thingy justifies Muricia's Call
> >being
> >R1. Anyone here who has never ever tried an animalism deck using ravens,
> >raptors
> >and crows? That one, it's a rare-ified power card (well I for one always seem
> >to
> >draw the crows when being preyed on by stealth and the ravens when I need
> >extra
> >firepower vs. for, and this card solves that problem right well).]
>
> Muricia's Call is going to make Raptor decks that much more annoying...
>
Would make, if anyone could manage to get hold of more than 3. Would make also if
it's rarity indeed fit it's utility, but hey, I guess playtesters don't do
animalism decks?
Thomas
"Thomas Pichler" <tom.p...@aon.at> wrote in message
news:3C0E614D...@aon.at...
[ quoted text not captured ]
I would guess, playtesters have little to do with what rarities cards are.
I really don't think they get any insight at all. I mean, it't not like it
would help them figure out if a card was broken or not?
--
Aaron
The Nosferatu Stuff
In message <7nAP7.34340$cU4.3...@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>,
"The Nosferatu Stuff" <roans...@yahoo.com> mumbled something about:
>I would guess, playtesters have little to do with what rarities cards are.
>I really don't think they get any insight at all. I mean, it't not like it
>would help them figure out if a card was broken or not?
I can just visualize it now...
"Hmm, ok, what's this card? Let's see... it reads 'Usable by a tapped
vampire. +2 stealth action. Gain 5 pool and tap a ready minion of your
prey.' wow, doesn't that seem a bit strong?"
"Well, it's going to be an R1."
"Oh, that's all right then. Next?"
--
Derek
...Vampire Squirrel has come to bite your nuts!
The Nosferatu Stuff wrote:
> > > >[Side note: explain how the "card utility" thingy justifies Muricia's
> Call
> > > >being
> > > >R1. Anyone here who has never ever tried an animalism deck using
> ravens,
> > > >raptors
> > > >and crows? That one, it's a rare-ified power card (well I for one
> always seem
> > > >to
> > > >draw the crows when being preyed on by stealth and the ravens when I
> need
> > > >extra
> > > >firepower vs. for, and this card solves that problem right well).]
> > >
> > > Muricia's Call is going to make Raptor decks that much more annoying...
> > >
> >
> > Would make, if anyone could manage to get hold of more than 3. Would make
> also if
> > it's rarity indeed fit it's utility, but hey, I guess playtesters don't do
> > animalism decks?
>
> I would guess, playtesters have little to do with what rarities cards are.
>
I don't know... according to the legend of utility-based rarity, they should
have, they'd be the ones to know about a card's utility ("there's about two
decks that can use this card at all", "everyone and their grandmother is gong to
play this baby", "it blows so hard that if you're actually going to print it it
should be about a R0.1", etc.).
If they don't, at least it explains why some of the rarities in BL are, uhm, a
bit peculiar.
Thomas
Thomas Pichler wrote:
> > I would guess, playtesters have little to do with what rarities cards are.
> >
>
> I don't know... according to the legend of utility-based rarity, they should
> have, they'd be the ones to know about a card's utility ("there's about two
> decks that can use this card at all", "everyone and their grandmother is gong to
> play this baby", "it blows so hard that if you're actually going to print it it
> should be about a R0.1", etc.).
>
> If they don't, at least it explains why some of the rarities in BL are, uhm, a
> bit peculiar.
Playtesters have abssolutely zero impact on the rarity of cards.
The job for the playtesters is to determine if a card is actually
broken, or over powered. They can also get those sucky cards dropped
to, so you don't see anything like Mummify.
However, WW holds the power on what finally is printed and how often
(*rarity*) its printed.
Raille
> Would make, if anyone could manage to get hold of more than 3.
Because, of course, nobody ever manages to get 4 copies of a rare.
Much less 12.
Rarity has never been much of a problem for a dedicated trader. If
you want ten copies of a card bad enough, you can get them -- there
are always people who don't have a use for that particular card.
Fanboy
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ZBxibKX0...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> In message <20011204234437...@mb-fc.aol.com>, Halcyan 2
> <halc...@aol.com> writes:
> >Doesn't Absorb the Mind seem a bit powerful (esp. at superior)? I know
it's not
> >uber-powerful or anything, but a ranged strike that steals discipline
cards (as
> >well as a blood methinks), all for free? Surely that must annoy lots of
decks
> >since you steal away all those discipline cards!
In fact i always likde weakness, the assamite original version of absorb
mind : you simply burn the disc card and a blood. It can make the difference
for damage prevention or additional thingy on the next card played by
opponent in combat ;)
Now you can even steal the discipline, i cant wait to see absorb the mind in
action !
> Well:
> a) you need to get into combat with them
this is not the difficult part : you have to avoir immortal grapples, or
dodges, or entombment or all sort of thing to use it efectively.
> b) not everyone plays Discipline cards (so it's going to sit there)
true. it also needs to be discipline you can use otherwise you would prefer
ranged aggravated to "fire for effect".
(+1 capacity for the purpose of obedience or mind rape maybe ?)
> c) Sanguine Instruction 0wnz j00r 455 (I assume)
U ll4m4 !
> d) play it once and everyone re-adjusts around you (Okay, this is the
> important vampire, so I'll always, always stealth his actions
> past)
I won't say that. People can't change their way to play for a card of this
caliber. Now, when i see a ToGP or a hostile takeover, that makes me change
my decisions about the player who played them...
(snip other arg for other topics)
reyda