rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Q for LSJ, Primal Instincts

8 messages from 5 participants · 08 May 1998 – 15 May 1998
original thread on Google Groups

JDS

This is the situation: An acting vampire maneuvera with an Aid from bats, and the opposing vampire manoevers back in and punches for 1 damage. The acting vampire then decides not to strike with aid from bats, cancels his strike with Primal Instincts, and chooses another one. Is this possible, or has the vampire already resigned himself to the Aid when he maneuvered with it? Thanks, Dave Stevers

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] It is not possible - he has already reduced his choices for striking to one: the Aid from Bats. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

James Coupe

In article <3556EE...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes >JDS wrote: >> >> This is the situation: An acting vampire maneuvera with an Aid from bats, >> and the opposing vampire manoevers back in and punches for 1 damage. The >> acting vampire then decides not to strike with aid from bats, cancels his >> strike with Primal Instincts, and chooses another one. Is this possible, or >> has the vampire already resigned himself to the Aid when he maneuvered with >> it? > >It is not possible - he has already reduced his choices for striking >to one: the Aid from Bats. > But if you look at the rule book, once you have committed yourself to a strike, you cannot change your mind fullstop (page 27). Since Primal Instincts let's you break that rule (Golden Rule of Cards), is it not unreasonable to suggest that it also lets you cancel a strike which was chosen by you in the maneuvers section of the combat. So since playing a Lucky Blow commits you to playing that strike but Primal Instincts will cancel it, why will Primal Instincts not cancel an Aid from Bats or a Thrown Gate chosen during the maneuvers step? I would imagine it would allow you to cancel one chosen during the Choose Strike step (I cannot see any reason at all for it not allowing you to), so why not now? -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply Vampire: Elder Kindred Network madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

LSJ

James Coupe wrote: > > In article <3556EE...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes > >JDS wrote: > >> > >> This is the situation: An acting vampire maneuvera with an Aid from bats, > >> and the opposing vampire manoevers back in and punches for 1 damage. The > >> acting vampire then decides not to strike with aid from bats, cancels his > >> strike with Primal Instincts, and chooses another one. Is this possible, or > >> has the vampire already resigned himself to the Aid when he maneuvered with > >> it? > > > >It is not possible - he has already reduced his choices for striking > >to one: the Aid from Bats. > > But if you look at the rule book, once you have committed yourself to a > strike, you cannot change your mind fullstop (page 27). Since Primal > Instincts let's you break that rule (Golden Rule of Cards), is it not > unreasonable to suggest that it also lets you cancel a strike which was > chosen by you in the maneuvers section of the combat. Yes. Using a strike's maneuver eliminates all other strikes from your options during the "choose strike" phase. If you cancel this strike, you still have no other strikes to choose, since they are all disallowed by a rule that Primal Insticts has not broken. You may play Primal Insticts to cancel the Aid from Bats strike and then simply fail to strike (since you cannot choose any other strike). This is the extent to which Primal Instincts breaks the rules. > So since playing a Lucky Blow commits you to playing that strike but Playing a lucky blow selects your strike. Playing any card commits you to playing the card, by definition. > Primal Instincts will cancel it, why will Primal Instincts not cancel an > Aid from Bats or a Thrown Gate chosen during the maneuvers step? I Because the manuever which has already been resolved cannot be cancelled. Very different from cancelling a strike that has not already been resolved. > would imagine it would allow you to cancel one chosen during the Choose If you do not use a strike to maneuver, you are free to select any strike for your strike. If you select and then cancel this strike, any strike (including Aid from Bats), and then are allowed to select another (by Primal Instints) you can still select any strike you like. > Strike step (I cannot see any reason at all for it not allowing you to), > so why not now? You cannot "cancel" a maneuver during the choose strike step, and that manuever (from a strike card) disallows striking by any other means. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jaysen Knight

Very interesting. Quick question though...could I play another Aid from Bats? It is the same strike as far as the maneuver is concerned and is potentially a different strike (card) as far as PI is concerned. I kind of doubt it myself, but might as well ask. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Jaysen Knight wrote: > > Very interesting. Quick question though...could I play > another Aid from Bats? It is the same strike as far as > the maneuver is concerned and is potentially a different > strike (card) as far as PI is concerned. I kind of doubt it > myself, but might as well ask. No. > LSJ wrote: > > You may play Primal Insticts to cancel the Aid from Bats strike > > [that you used to maneuver] and then simply fail to strike (since > > you cannot choose any other strike). -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Lambach

Am I right then to believe that: if the opposing minion has an Ivory Bow, and strikes with it, and then I use Disguised Weapon to bring out my own Ivory, then the opposing minion has lost his own strike (and me too)?

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] The answer is still "Yes". <351117...@wizards.com> [LSJ 980319] (You don't lose your strike since you cannot choose to strike with a contested weapon - you'll have to choose a different strike). [ quoted text not captured ]