LSJ : Orun and "Cards played by another Methuselah"

When an Orun check re: capacity occurs, it only cares on who played the card, and nothing else, correct?

Blooded Sand wrote: > When an Orun check re: capacity occurs, it only cares on who played > the card, and nothing else, correct? Well, who controls "this Laibon" (for comparison to "who played the card"), but right. Nothing else.

[ quoted text not captured ] my prey controls eze with 11 orun him (FAS) I mind rape him and call ancient influence/reins of power. What happens?

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: > my prey controls eze with 11 orun him (FAS) > I mind rape him and call ancient influence/reins of power. > What happens? You had a 34-cap vampire to play Mind Rape with? Congratulations! The Oruns were still played by a different Methuselah than any card you play. Since your vampire who played Mind Rape is older than Eze+Oruns by definition, it's kind of moot, but Eze would still count as a 33-cap for those cards.

[ quoted text not captured ] > > What happens? [ quoted text not captured ] Oops, I mis-read Orun _and_ your question. REVERSAL: (I always wanted to say that) The correct answer is: Since you now control Eze, and you're "this Laibon's controller", he only counts as an 11-cap during your temporary control. But you still would have had to steal him with a 34+-cap vampire. Sorry about that.

On Sep 29, 10:20 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] quoted from Path of Blood Azel wrote (Link http://thepathofblood.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1206&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a ) looks like in the newsgroup that LSJ is saying Temptation doesn't work... "When an Orun check re: capacity occurs, it only cares on who played the card, and nothing else, correct?" -Blooded Sand "Well, who controls "this Laibon" (for comparison to "who played the card"), but right. Nothing else." -LSJ 9/29/09 but Kuta on my prey's minions should. Orun on a stolen minion doesn't eliminate the "other than this Laibon's controller" clause -- my new stolen minion's Orun won't trigger because i am the new controller. but as LSJ agreed, it "only cares who played the card, and nothing else". if Kuta was played by me, it doesn't matter, it's the Kuta'ed minion played by another meth (who is not the Oruned Laibon controller) that matters. therefore the Kuta effect on the minion triggers regardless of who plays it because it is a one-step-removed effect in terms of an Orun check. Orun only checks that which is directly affecting the Oruned minion coming from other methuselahs, right? so further, my new stolen minion w/o Orun will trigger my existing minion with Orun, right? Orun checks nothing else except who played the card, and whether it does not comes from this Oruned Laibon's controller, not who now controls it. which means i cannot play cards to trigger my own Orun minion's Orun -- but i can use my new stolen minion to use its own effects to trigger my Oruned minion? A: Steal prey's 4 cap, untapped in my ready region during my minion phase A: Stolen 4 cap has effect text (tap to give older vampire 2 of Stolen vamp's blood) A: Have a 3 cap with 1 Orun A: Tap Stolen 4 cap -2 blood to give 1xOrun 3 cap +2 blood since stolen vamp was played by another meth and i am not playing a card from hand as "this Laibon's controller" then this is legitimate, right? Stoley should read Oruweenie as a 5 cap and therefore targetable with its special text. further, this should be applicable to stolen locations as well.

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: > "When an Orun check re: capacity occurs, it only cares on who played > the card, and nothing else, correct?" -Blooded Sand > "Well, who controls "this Laibon" (for comparison to "who played the > card"), but right. Nothing else." -LSJ 9/29/09 This sums it up. The rest of your post is a bit confusing. > if Kuta was played by me, it doesn't matter, it's the Kuta'ed minion > played by another meth (who is not the Oruned Laibon controller) that > matters. therefore the Kuta effect on the minion triggers regardless > of who plays it because it is a one-step-removed effect in terms of an > Orun check. Orun only checks that which is directly affecting the > Oruned minion coming from other methuselahs, right? Kuta must target a vampire of capacity 6 or less. If the target has Orun on it, and the Orun was played by a methuselah other than the one playing Kuta, then this affects the capacity restriction to call the referendum. Kuta also says "This vampire cannot block older vampires". This includes vampires who were brought into play by other Methuselahs (regardless of their current controller) who have enough Orun on them to make them seem older. It doesn't affect Orun on the Kuta'd Minion (let's call him Jeff) at all. > so further, my new stolen minion w/o Orun will trigger my existing > minion with Orun, right? What do you mean by a minion "triggering" another minion? > since stolen vamp was played by another meth and i am not playing a > card from hand as "this Laibon's controller" then this is legitimate, > right? Stoley should read Oruweenie as a 5 cap and therefore > targetable with its special text. If you stole a minion, even temporarily, then you are "this Laibon's controller" during the time you control him. By definition. So, cards you play that target that minion do not "see" the Orun capacity-increase. Still confused about what your question is, but I hope this helps...

Blooded Sand wrote: > On Sep 29, 10:20 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >> Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >>> Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> my prey controls eze with 11 orun him (FAS) >>>> I mind rape him and call ancient influence/reins of power. >>>> What happens? >>> You had a 34-cap vampire to play Mind Rape with? Congratulations! >>> The Oruns were still played by a different Methuselah than any >>> card you play. >>> Since your vampire who played Mind Rape is older than Eze+Oruns >>> by definition, it's kind of moot, but Eze would still count >>> as a 33-cap for those cards. >> Oops, I mis-read Orun _and_ your question. >> >> REVERSAL: (I always wanted to say that) >> The correct answer is: >> Since you now control Eze, and you're "this Laibon's controller", >> he only counts as an 11-cap during your temporary control. >> But you still would have had to steal him with a 34+-cap vampire. Correct. > quoted from Path of Blood > Azel wrote > (Link http://thepathofblood.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1206&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a > ) > looks like in the newsgroup that LSJ is saying Temptation doesn't > work... > > "When an Orun check re: capacity occurs, it only cares on who played > the card, and nothing else, correct?" -Blooded Sand > > "Well, who controls "this Laibon" (for comparison to "who played the > card"), but right. Nothing else." -LSJ 9/29/09 > > but Kuta on my prey's minions should. Orun on a stolen minion doesn't > eliminate the "other than this Laibon's controller" clause -- my new > stolen minion's Orun won't trigger because i am the new controller. If you played the Kuta, correct. It doesn't work on the Laibon while you control the Laibon. > but as LSJ agreed, it "only cares who played the card, and nothing > else". > > if Kuta was played by me, it doesn't matter, it's the Kuta'ed minion > played by another meth (who is not the Oruned Laibon controller) that > matters. therefore the Kuta effect on the minion triggers regardless > of who plays it because it is a one-step-removed effect in terms of an > Orun check. Orun only checks that which is directly affecting the > Oruned minion coming from other methuselahs, right? I can't parse the question from that, sorry. Orun checks every card played by another Methuselah. Or rather, every card played by a Methuselah other than the controller of the Orun'ed vampire sees (checks) the Orun'ed vampire as having two additional capacity. > so further, my new stolen minion w/o Orun will trigger my existing > minion with Orun, right? ? The minion card played by someone other than the Orun'ed vampire's controller will see the Orun effect on the Orun'ed vampire, right. > Orun checks nothing else except who played > the card, and whether it does not comes from this Oruned Laibon's > controller, not who now controls it. "it" being the Orun card, right. The comparison is against who now controls this Laibon, not against who now controls this Orun. > which means i cannot play cards > to trigger my own Orun minion's Orun -- but i can use my new stolen > minion to use its own effects to trigger my Oruned minion? The stolen minion is a card played by a minion other than your Orun'ed Laibon's controller, yes. > A: Steal prey's 4 cap, untapped in my ready region during my minion > phase > A: Stolen 4 cap has effect text (tap to give older vampire 2 of Stolen > vamp's blood) > A: Have a 3 cap with 1 Orun > A: Tap Stolen 4 cap -2 blood to give 1xOrun 3 cap +2 blood > > since stolen vamp was played by another meth and i am not playing a > card from hand as "this Laibon's controller" then this is legitimate, > right? Stoley should read Oruweenie as a 5 cap and therefore > targetable with its special text. Yes. Excellent naming there -- made the question much easier to parse. Thanks. > further, this should be applicable to stolen locations as well. Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes