LSJ - Census Taker and 'any sabbat' clause

Hi There, Reading the text of Sensus Taker I've gota question about it's any sabbat wording. Could I tap a Black Hand with it that I control to force another methusela's Sabbat vampires bleed up by 1? Similarly could I tap the vampire with it to give another Methusela's Black Hand vamp +1 Intercept? It's a bit cornercase but it would be a great way to burn a predator's vamp, like Sha-Ennu, with Archon Investigation becasue you've forced them to bleed you for 4. similarly if you've been flicked with something like My Enemy's Enemy you coudl burn one of your prey's vamps with Archon Investigation by forcing them to bleed you for 4. "Census Taker Master, 1 Pool Unique Master. Put this card on a ready Black Hand vampire. During an action, this Black Hand vampire can tap to give any other Sabbat vampire +1 bleed or 2 additional votes for the current action. During an action, this Black Hand vampire can tap to give any other Black Hand vampire +1 intercept."

On Apr 15, 10:32 pm, "Benird" <ben...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi There, > > Reading the text of Sensus Taker I've gota question about it's any > sabbat wording. > > Could I tap a Black Hand with it that I control to force another > methusela's Sabbat vampires bleed up by 1? Similarly could I tap the > vampire with it to give another Methusela's Black Hand vamp +1 > Intercept? I'd say yes you can.. It doesn't have explicit card text that says "to a sabbat vampire you control" In addition, Pentex(TM) loves you works the same way, only that card it is optional. My prey kept letting my predator use that against me at the SoC prerelease. > It's a bit cornercase but it would be a great way to burn a predator's > vamp, like Sha-Ennu, with Archon Investigation becasue you've forced > them to bleed you for 4. similarly if you've been flicked with > something like My Enemy's Enemy you coudl burn one of your prey's > vamps with Archon Investigation by forcing them to bleed you for 4. Yeah a little bit of a cornercase. So many BH vampires have AUS or dom/DOM bouncing a bleed can be more beneficial than an AI card slot. An interesting note, you can even play census taker on another methuselah's bh vampire. it doesnt specify a bh vampire you control. but maybe lsj has mo'better knowledge or insight about your question that didn't come to my light yet.

> It's a bit cornercase but it would be a great way to burn a predator's > vamp, like Sha-Ennu, with Archon Investigation becasue you've forced > them to bleed you for 4. similarly if you've been flicked with > something like My Enemy's Enemy you coudl burn one of your prey's > vamps with Archon Investigation by forcing them to bleed you for 4. I have actually seen Abandoning the Flesh played to burn a vamp with an AI. Now that was funny. :P --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com

tongu...@comcast.net wrote: > On Apr 15, 10:32 pm, "Benird" <ben...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi There, >> >> Reading the text of Sensus Taker I've gota question about it's any >> sabbat wording. >> >> Could I tap a Black Hand with it that I control to force another >> methusela's Sabbat vampires bleed up by 1? Similarly could I tap the >> vampire with it to give another Methusela's Black Hand vamp +1 >> Intercept? > > I'd say yes you can.. It doesn't have explicit card text that says > "to a sabbat vampire you control" In addition, Pentex(TM) loves you > works the same way, only that card it is optional. My prey kept > letting my predator use that against me at the SoC prerelease. Correct. >> It's a bit cornercase but it would be a great way to burn a predator's >> vamp, like Sha-Ennu, with Archon Investigation becasue you've forced >> them to bleed you for 4. similarly if you've been flicked with >> something like My Enemy's Enemy you coudl burn one of your prey's >> vamps with Archon Investigation by forcing them to bleed you for 4. > > Yeah a little bit of a cornercase. So many BH vampires have AUS or > dom/DOM bouncing a bleed can be more beneficial than an AI card slot. > An interesting note, you can even play census taker on another > methuselah's bh vampire. it doesnt specify a bh vampire you control. Correct.

On 16 huhti, 13:44, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > tongue-t...@comcast.net wrote: > > On Apr 15, 10:32 pm, "Benird" <ben...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi There, > > >> Reading the text of Sensus Taker I've gota question about it's any > >> sabbat wording. > > >> Could I tap a Black Hand with it that I control to force another > >> methusela's Sabbat vampires bleed up by 1? Similarly could I tap the > >> vampire with it to give another Methusela's Black Hand vamp +1 > >> Intercept? > > > I'd say yes you can.. It doesn't have explicit card text that says > > "to a sabbat vampire you control" In addition, Pentex(TM) loves you > > works the same way, only that card it is optional. My prey kept > > letting my predator use that against me at the SoC prerelease. > > Correct. > Can I use my Census Maker when I rush my prey's bishop to give him 2 extra votes for the duration of that rush action? Will that let me place three counters on the Leadership Vacuum I play when the rushed bishop goes to torpor?

iki...@luukku.com wrote: > Can I use my Census Maker when I rush my prey's bishop to give him 2 > extra votes for the duration of that rush action? > Will that let me place three counters on the Leadership Vacuum I play > when the rushed bishop goes to torpor? Yes.

[ quoted text not captured ] Now that is a delightfully evil idea! I love it!

On Apr 16, 4:23 pm, "RocketEddy" <eddyt3...@aol.com> wrote: > LSJ wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] And to your own vampire to give him two more votes in the bloodhunt? Or is there something about the bloodhunt being outside of the action?

niko...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Apr 16, 4:23 pm, "RocketEddy" <eddyt3...@aol.com> wrote: >> LSJ wrote: >>> ikil...@luukku.com wrote: >>>> Can I use my Census Maker when I rush my prey's bishop to give him 2 >>>> extra votes for the duration of that rush action? >>>> Will that let me place three counters on the Leadership Vacuum I play >>>> when the rushed bishop goes to torpor? >>> Yes. >> Now that is a delightfully evil idea! I love it! > > > And to your own vampire to give him two more votes in the bloodhunt? Yes. > Or is there something about the bloodhunt being outside of the action? It is part of the action, but conducted independently (so reactions and action modifiers cannot be played).

[ quoted text not captured ] And if I tap CT while rushing with "political struggle" does my vamp gain the extra 2 votes permenantly? or will they turn off at the end of the action?

[ quoted text not captured ] Ok, this is nasty. This is Huge. It's a combo! Vote lock, with a rush deck, and pool backup with stealth-vote! Great.

Piotr Andreikov has Census Taker and Banjoko has Tattoo Signal. Banjoko bleeds and Piotr taps to give Banjoko +1 bleed. Can I now untap Piotr with Tattoo Signal and tap him again for a further +1 bleed?

[ quoted text not captured ] No. "During X, (you may) do Y" limits you to once per X.